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Law of Code

English, Technology, 1 season, 137 episodes, 5 days, 7 hours, 13 minutes
About
The Law of Code podcast focuses on the legal framework being built around blockchains, crypto, NFTs, and DAOs. We’ll look at crypto regulations, rights surrounding NFTs, as well as the legislation impacting blockchain. You’ll hear from the top lawyers, lawmakers, and entrepreneurs in the space – we’ll touch on best practices countries are implementing, new regulations, and share ideas on the best path forward.
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#137 - Blockchain Association sues the SEC to strike down Dealer Rule

Recently, the Blockchain Association (BA) and the Crypto Freedom Alliance of Texas (CFAT) filed a lawsuit against the Securities and Exchange Commission seeking a court order to strike down the SEC’s Dealer Rule due to the SEC’s various Administrative Procedure Act (APA) violations including preventing industry participants from being able to operate under clearly communicated rules and a lack of a fair and transparent rulemaking process. This conversation covers that lawsuit and much more. Marisa Tashman Coppel (@⁠mtcoppel⁠) is Head of Legal at the Blockchain Association and Laura Sanders is Policy Counsel at the Blockchain Association. Both play a critical role in developing and advocating for policy positions on behalf of the crypto industry while managing long-term legal projects and strategic litigation. [1:47] The trend of litigation in the crypto space.[7:16] Remedies available for the crypto industry.[13:46] Definition and interpretation of the statutory term "dealer."[19:42] The impact of expanding the definition of "dealer."[27:04] Why sue the SEC?[33:46] The "ecosystem" argument, examined& much more.Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
5/21/202438 minutes, 45 seconds
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#136 - Justin Wales on the Crypto Legal Handbook

Justin Wales (@bitcoin_wales) is the Head of Legal for the Americas at Crypto.com. Before going in-house, he was a partner at the international law firm K&L Gates, where he represented crypto companies in all aspects of their business.  His new book, The Crypto Legal Handbook, is a must-read guide through the laws of crypto, web3 and an ever-decentralizing world. I had an opportunity to read it prior to this conversation — and loved to see the Law of Code podcast mentioned — so this podcast will cover why he wrote the Handbook and what’s inside this essential primer for anyone working in the industry, as well as his unique background.  You can order The Crypto Legal Handbook here. [1:45] Why Justin wrote the book [3:30] Regulatory principles [6:30] Two assets that can't be commodities [8:00] Commodities vs securities [11:00] History behind a "security" [17:00] What Justin learned from writing this book & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
4/22/202447 minutes, 16 seconds
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#135 - Everything you should know about Roman Sterlingov's case

Today’s podcast covers the case of Roman Sterlingov, a 33-year-old Swedish-Russian national, was arrested by Internal Revenue Service criminal investigators at the Los Angeles airport and was accused of creating and operating Bitcoin Fog, a bitcoin “mixing” service that the US Justice Department claims Sterlingov used to enable $336 million in money laundering. I’m joined by J.W. Verret, an Associate Professor at George Mason and an expert witness who testified in the case, and Roman’s defense counsel: Tor Ekeland, a trial and appellate lawyer known for representing hackers and white collar defendants, as well as Michael Hassard, an Associate with Tor Ekeland Law. [2:05] The history of Bitcoin Fog [4:19] Why Roman Sterlingov was investigated [10:24] The charges against Roman [12:00] Universal jurisdiction [19:40] Blockchain tracing as expert evidence. [32:07] The policy framing of money laundering and crypto [38:18] Financial privacy [48:00] Roman's life since the charges & much more. You can contribute to the defense fund at the website for Tor Ekland Law. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
4/17/202451 minutes, 9 seconds
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#134 - Pre-enforcement lawsuit against the SEC with Amanda Tuminelli and Jake Chervinsky

The DeFi Education Fund and co-plaintiff Beba, an apparel company based in Texas, recently filed a pre-enforcement suit challenging the SEC’s regulation by enforcement approach to crypto and their policy that free airdrops are securities transactions. Amanda Tuminelli serves as the DeFi Education Fund's chief legal officer where she leads the organization's impact litigation and policy efforts. Jake Chervinsky recently joined Variant as Chief Legal Officer, where he leads the firm's legal team, and works closely with portfolio founders to overcome the regulatory hurdles holding them back. He’s a board member for the DeFi Education Fund. Show highlights: [1:04] Facts and background. [3:36] Why bring a pre-enforcement action? [8:02] Free airdrops under existing securities laws. [13:12] Challenging the SEC's rules. [22:11] If DEF and Beba win the case, what's next? & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
4/15/202429 minutes, 23 seconds
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#133 - Liability on smart contract developers: Roman Storm case with Jake Chervinsky and Amanda Tuminelli

After the DEF submitted an amicus brief in the Roman Storm matter, which involves Tornado Cash, I spoke with the two authors: Amanda Tuminelli serves as the DeFi Education Fund's chief legal officer where she leads the organization's impact litigation and policy efforts. Jake Chervinsky recently joined Variant as Chief Legal Officer, where he leads the firm's legal team, and works closely with portfolio founders to overcome the regulatory hurdles holding them back. He’s a board member for the DeFi Education Fund. Show highlights: [1:32] Roman Storm and Tornado Cash [10:53] The role of the DEF in matters like this [13:31] Three theories of criminal liability for software developers [18:50] Why the government brought this case [22:18] Terminology: Property interests, possession, control [23:07] The future of this case & much more. Mentioned: Cravath paper on control. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
4/8/202427 minutes, 34 seconds
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#132 - What is MetaLeX? Plus, why lawyers must take note

Co-founded by longtime cryptolawyers Gabriel Shapiro and Alex Golubitsky, the mission of MetaLeX (which means beyond law) is to combine legal structures and autonomous tech to create best-in-class solutions serving DAOs, devs, and internet denizens with a suite of interoperable autonomous law solutions, which they refer to as MetaLeX OS. The goal is a bold one: Separate law from nation-states in a manner similar to how Bitcoin separates money and Ethereum finance from nation-states. [1:14] What is MetaLeX?[6:16] BORGs, explained.[8:12] BORG vs. DAOs.[15:55] Cybernetic law.[25:36] Expecting the law to act in appropriate, equitable manner.[31:36] Autonomous code and the future.[35:36] What is "deal technology" an how is it used[42:15] Learnings from bridging the gap between the code and the law.& much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
3/29/202454 minutes, 49 seconds
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#131 - Is UNI a security after Uniswap turns on the fee switch? EU and MiCA insights from Stephane Daniel

Stéphane Daniel (@stephdan_law) is a Partner at d&a partners, an independent law firm dedicated to tech and blockchain entrepreneurs in France and the EU. Stéphane advises high-tech firms with their structuring, fundraising, and M&A transactions. He was notably involved in the first legal structuring (under French law) of DAOs and regularly advises companies on equity, debt, token, or hybrid fundraising and M&A transactions involving blockchain companies. Show highlights: [4:01] Legal consequences of turning on UNI's fee switch [15:02] A different approach: veCRV [18:59] Examining the differences between the veCRV, CRV and UNI proposal [32:22] The importance of decentralization under EU law [36:50] What non-EU projects should know about MiCA [40:38] Stephane's genesis block [47:26] Habits and advice Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
3/15/202450 minutes, 22 seconds
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#130 - Chris Giancarlo, former CFTC Chair on the SEC's approach to crypto

Chris Giancarlo (@giancarloMKTS) is senior counsel and Co-Chair of the Willkie Digital Works practice in the firm’s New York office. Chris served as the thirteenth Chairman of the U.S. CFTC, where he oversaw regulation of the futures, options and swaps derivatives markets. During his tenure at the CFTC (2014-2019), Chris oversaw the first bitcoin futures products entering the marketplace. He’s also published a book, CryptoDad: The Fight for the Future of Money, which I highly recommend. Show highlights: [1:14] Digital based monetary systems [16:25] Writing guides for entrepreneurs [26:06] Leading the CFTC [31:18] Gensler, the SEC and the CFTC [35:36] Why embrace Blockchain? [1:05:17] Activity-based regulation & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
3/4/20241 hour, 20 minutes, 19 seconds
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#129 - Why is the same risk, same rules philosophy wrong? Eric Hess explains

Eric Hess (@hess_legal) is Founder & Managing Counsel at Hess Legal Counsel, a cybersecurity SaaS platform and consulting company, and hosts The Encrypted Economy podcast. In this episode, we’ll be exploring his recent paper Bridging Policy and Practice: A Pragmatic Approach to Decentralized Finance, Risk, and Regulation. For Part 1, a history of securities regulation in the US, see our prior episode #122. Show highlights: [1:30] Surprising insight about securities regulation [4:30] 2022 White House executive order [11:30] The real reason(s) why crypto projects can register with the SEC [17:00] Why the same risk, same rules philosophy is wrong [26:30] Solutions to problems posed by blockchain [36:00] What Eric has changed his mind on & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
2/27/202439 minutes, 3 seconds
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#128 - Primavera De Filippi of CNRS and Harvard on the future of copyright law, NFTs and DAOs

Primavera De Filippi is a Director of Research at the National Center of Scientific Research (CNRS) in Paris, Faculty Associate at the Berkman Klein Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University, and Visiting Fellow at the Robert Schuman Centre for Advanced Studies at the European University Institute. Her research focuses on the legal challenges and opportunities of blockchain technology and artificial intelligence, with specific focus on governance and trust. Primavera is the author of the book “Blockchain and the Law,” published in 2018 by Harvard University Press (co-authored with Aaron Wright). Show highlights: [1:00] Genesis block [3:00] Copyright law in the digital world [15:00] Metabirkin case [20:00] Code as law [30:00] Moral values [34:00] Blockchains and the Law [39:00] Blockchain-based life forms (Plantoids) & much more.
2/22/202447 minutes, 54 seconds
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#127 - Cravath's Jeff Dinwoodie on the SEC and the future of crypto regulation

Jeffrey T. Dinwoodie is a partner at Cravath, Swaine & Moore, and a member of the firm’s Financial Institutions Group. He has served in senior roles at the SEC and the U.S. Treasury Department, including as Chief Counsel to SEC Chairman Jay Clayton and, earlier, as Chairman Clayton’s Trading and Markets Counsel. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
2/11/20241 hour, 8 minutes, 35 seconds
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#126 - Genuine DeFi as Critical Infrastructure: Paper by Rebecca Rettig, Michael Mosier and Katja Gilman

Rebecca Rettig, Michael Mosier and Katja Gilman published their paper, Genuine DeFi as Critical Infrastructure: A Conceptual Framework for Combating Illicit Finance Activity in Decentralized Finance and a summary two-pager. This paper proposes a framework (see Section III) to effectively detect, deter and prevent illicit financial activity in DeFi, while preserving the technology as permissionless, neutral infrastructure. This podcast is an audio version of the paper, along with key takeaways and points made within it. [1:40] Overview of the paper [9:00] Current AML and CTF regime in America [18:00] Sanctions [23:00] DeFi and illicit finance [26:00] Framework for the future of DeFi
1/30/202446 minutes, 45 seconds
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#124 - Former CFTC Director Josh Sterling on choosing regulators (SEC vs CFTC) and the future of Web3

Joshua B. Sterling is a Partner at Jones Day where he represents financial services, energy, fintech, agriculture and other companies in matters before the CFTC, the SEC, and other financial regulators. A former senior regulator, Josh was previously the Director of the CFTC’s Market Participants Division. In that role, he oversaw the 3,300 financial firms worldwide registered with the CFTC to participate in the global derivatives markets.  Show highlights: [1:00] Josh's introduction to Bitcoin [5:00] BitMEX case [11:00] 2008 financial crisis [16:00] Finance and Web3 [20:00] Role of CFTC in crypto [25:00] Role of the SEC [29:00] How to improve the SEC's results & much more. We also discuss the book The Price of Time: The Real Story of Interest. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
1/29/202439 minutes, 13 seconds
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#123 - The SEC vs. Coinbase Hearing: What you should know with Bloomberg's Elliott Stein

Elliott Z. Stein (@NYCStein) is a Senior Litigation Analyst at Bloomberg Intelligence. He previously worked in private practice on structured finance/capital markets litigation, white-collar crime and related capital markets matters. Show highlights: [1:30] Attending Coinbase hearing on Jan 17 [6:00] Why Elliott expects Coinbase to win [12:00] Judge Failla's concern with the SEC's position [16:00] SEC's strongest arguments [18:00] When to expect a decision [20:00] Supreme Court narrowing Howey [23:00] What surprised Elliott about the Coinbase strategy [27:00] Ripple case [31:00] Elliott's career & much more. Show links: Elliott's 2024 Outlook Elliott's Podcast Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
1/24/202441 minutes, 24 seconds
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#122 - History of American Securities Regulation with Eric Hess

Eric Hess (@hess_legal) is Founder & Managing Counsel at Hess Legal Counsel, a cybersecurity SaaS platform and consulting company, and hosts The Encrypted Economy podcast. Eric has over twenty years of experience acting as senior in-house counsel, general counsel or senior management for exchanges, broker dealers, and financial services technology providers. In this episode, we’ll be exploring his recent paper Bridging Policy and Practice: A Pragmatic Approach to Decentralized Finance, Risk, and Regulation. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
11/15/20231 hour, 7 minutes, 59 seconds
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#121 - MEV and OFAC Risk for Infrastructure Providers

Evan Zinaman (@zin_esq) is the Founder & Principal at Trailbreak, a boutique transactional firm providing tech-fluent corporate, regulatory, product and IP counsel and strategic advice to startups, builders and investors throughout the crypto space. Evan also serves as special crypto counsel to clients of Reed Smith, advising as part of an industry-spanning, global blockchain group that he helped found. In this episode, we discuss Evan’s paper, “Where the Rubber Meets the Road: A MEV-Aware, Functionalist Review of OFAC Risk ‘on the Base Layer’”. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
11/13/202350 minutes, 34 seconds
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#120 - Paradigm's Policy Lab with Rodrigo Seira and Brandon Malone

Rodrigo Seira (@RSSH273) is Special Counsel at Paradigm. Prior to joining Paradigm, he was outside counsel to crypto investors and entrepreneurs at Cooley LLP. Brendan Malone (@brendanpmalone) is a Policy Manager at Paradigm. Prior to joining Paradigm, Brendan worked at the Federal Reserve where he focused on policy issues for financial market infrastructures. Rodrigo and Brendan launched the Paradigm Policy Lab. The goal of the Lab is to be a gathering place for academics, policy experts, lawyers, and technologists to study how to address the biggest policy challenges in crypto. In this conversation, they share the origin story, goals and projects underway at the Lab. Rodrigo mentions this book: Technological Revolutions and Financial Capital: The Dynamics of Bubbles and Golden Ages is an academic book by Carlota Perez. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
11/6/202356 minutes, 14 seconds
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#119 - Reviewing the EU's MiCA with William O’Rorke

William O’Rorke (@williamororke) is the Founding Partner of ORWL, a leading law firm assisting clients with businesses in the crypto space, VASPs and general Web3 services. He leads the regulatory practice at ORWL and is the head of the legal committee at ADAN, a French crypto association. In this conversation, we discuss the most significant impacts MiCA will have on projects in the crypto space, the information White Papers must include under MiCA, what is not covered by the EU's landmark regulation and much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
10/30/202357 minutes, 9 seconds
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#118 - Crypto Taxes, NFT Settlements and Decentralization with Zach Rosenberg

Zach Rosenberg (@MeatEsq) is an attorney and principal at Rosehill Legal, a boutique transactional firm assisting early-stage founders, largely in the crypto space, with structuring, funding, building, and deploying products and networks. He previously worked as an M&A Tax Director at PWC where he spent eight years advising large private equity firms and public company clients on large acquisitions, divestitures, and restructuring transactions.  You can connect with Zach via email at [email protected]. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
10/10/202359 minutes, 9 seconds
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#117 - Ryne Miller on the CFTC's DeFi Settlements and the history of Gary Gensler

Ryne Miller is the founder and managing partner of Miller Strategic Partners LLP, a law firm specializing in: 1. Regulatory advice and investigations counsel for the traditional trading and markets industry; 2. Regulatory and strategic advice for digital asset and blockchain companies; and 3. Crisis and incident response management. Ryne was previously General Counsel at FTX US, a Partner at Sullivan & Cromwell and Legal Counsel to Chairman Gary Gensler while at the CFTC, during the CFTC’s Dodd Frank rule-writing program.  Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
10/2/202358 minutes, 24 seconds
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#116 - Discussing Coinbase's L2 (Base) and FriendTech with Jolie Yang

Jolie Yang (@JolieYang) is a former legal partner to Coinbase's product, engineering, and design teams on its Web3 initiatives, such as self-custodial wallet, decentralized identity, digital assets, as product counsel. While at Coinbase, Jolie was part of the team that launched Base. Prior to Coinbase, Jolie was an attorney at Davis Polk and Skadden, Arps. Show highlights: [4:00] Working on Coinbase's IPO [7:00] Building Base [11:30] Potential Token for Base? [16:00] How Base works [23:00] Decentralization for a project incubated by a centralized institution & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
9/29/202359 minutes
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#115 - Challenging Patents Impacting DeFi with Amanda Tuminelli of the DeFi Education Fund

Amanda Tuminelli (@amandatums) is chief legal officer for the Defi Education Fund, where she leads the organization’s impact litigation and policy efforts. She was previously an attorney at Kobre & Kim and Dechert LLP, and served as a Judicial Law Clerk for the Eastern District of New York. Show highlights: [1:00] DeFi Education Fund's petition to challenge a patent impacting DeFi [12:00] Amanda's introduction to crypto [21:00] Her role as Chief Legal Officer of the DeFi Education Fund [25:00] SEC’s proposed rulemaking to amend existing rules regarding Alternative Trading Systems [32:00] Kirschner v. JP Morgan Chase Bank, N.A [39:00] Thoughts on the Financial Innovation and Technology for the 21st Century Act & the Blockchain Regulatory Certainty Act [47:00] Ripple Decision & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
9/11/202356 minutes, 23 seconds
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#114 - CFTC Regulation of Crypto with Michael Frisch

Michael Frisch is a partner at Croke Fairchild Morgan & Beres where he leads the firm’s Government Litigation and Investigations Practice. Mike previously worked at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC), where he brought one of the CFTC’s first enforcement actions involving cryptocurrency — CFTC v. Bitfinex — and was part of the team responsible for the CFTC’s action against Tether in 2021. Show highlights: [1:30] Mike's introduction to crypto [3:00] The history of the CFTC's rules around crypto [6:00] Masterclass on the CFTC [13:00] Working on CFTC v. Bitfinex [20:00] Coinbase's FCM registration [24:00] FTX and the CFTC & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
9/7/202341 minutes, 56 seconds
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#113 - Decentralized Dispute Resolution with Mark Cianci of Ropes & Gray

Mark Cianci is Counsel at Ropes & Gray, where he represents hedge funds, private equity firms and their portfolio companies, and clients in other industries in complex commercial litigation, cryptocurrency litigation, qui tam actions, bankruptcy litigation, and government investigation and enforcement matters. Mark also counsels clients in the blockchain and cryptocurrency space on a variety of regulatory considerations, including compliance with securities laws. Show highlights: [1:30] Mark's introduction to crypto [3:00] How dispute resolution has evolved [9:00] The future of decentralized justice [18:00] Benefits of blockchains for decentralized dispute resolution [31:00] Commercial ADR [36:00] Interesting crypto projects & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
9/4/202344 minutes, 33 seconds
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#112 - India's Crypto Law Regime with Ashish Chandra of CoinSwitch

Ashish Chandra is the General Counsel of CoinSwitch, India's largest crypto platform pivoting into a multi-asset wealth-tech superapp. With over 22 years of experience in the tech industry, Ashish also led the legal and regulatory affairs of WhatsApp for India. He helped build the e-commerce and fintech/payments business of Facebook, Instagram & WhatsApp in India. Show highlights: [1:30] How crypto regulation has evolved in India [8:00] India's landmark Supreme Court decision [13:00] Tax on crypto in India [17:00] Lobbying efforts in India [24:00] Most active crypto regulators in India [27:30] His role as GC of CoinSwitch & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
8/28/202347 minutes, 10 seconds
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#111 - Ross Campbell on ERC 1155 and Legal Engineering at Kali DAO + Nani.

Ross Campbell (@z0r0zzz) is a legal engineer and co-founder of KaliDAO, in addition to being a corporate attorney. Ross is also working on NANI, a protocol mixing AI and crypto. Previous episodes with Ross: 1. #5 - Ross Campbell: Legal engineering, Bar Association DAOs, use cases for oracles, and much, much more 2. #30 - Ross Campbell: Legal Engineering and Kali DAO Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
8/14/20231 hour, 4 minutes, 7 seconds
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#110 - The Coinbase Motion to Dismiss the SEC's Lawsuit

On August 4, 202, Coinbase filed a brief in support of its motion to dismiss the SEC's lawsuit. This podcast provides an audio version of the brief, along with key takeaways and points made within it. Show highlights: [1:00] Preliminary Statement [6:30] Background on the SEC's charges [11:30] Coinbase's argument for dismissal [13:00] Because the complaint alleges no contractual undertaking beyond the point of sale, no investment contract is pleaded [22:00] The SEC misreads Howey in asserting that a scheme without a contractual undertaking will suffice [29:00] Recent cases do not support the SEC's efforts to use scheme as an escape hatch from statutory text [33:00] The SEC's effort to portray a simple asset sale as a security is an unprecedented stretch [41:00] Any future value that token purchasers on Coinbase and through Prime may hope to reap is not in the profit, income or assets of the issuers business [42:00] The Major Questions Doctrine compels rejection of the SEC's construction of investment contract [49:00] Coinbase is entitled to judgment on the claim that it acts as an unregistered broker through Wallet [50:00] Coinbase is entitled to judgment on the claim that its staking services constitute unregistered securities
8/7/202352 minutes, 6 seconds
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#109 - Stephen Palley on the Evolution of Crypto Law, Insurance, Dumpsters and AI.

Stephen Palley (@stephendpalley) is a litigation partner and co-chair of Brown Rudnick’s Digital Commerce group. Stephen is a seasoned litigator with over 20 years of extensive courtroom experience litigating and trying complex commercial matters. Stephen has written extensively and been quoted widely on legal issues arising from the use of Blockchain technology, with appearances in both print and television media. For more on Stephen's background, listen to episode 28 of Law of Code: #28 - Stephen Palley: Crypto regulation, building a team, and defining decentralization. Show highlights: [2:30] Analogies in crypto: Smart contracts and dumpsters. [14:00] Intangible scarcity: Why blockchain's enable scarce, intangible assets. [18:30] Licensing regimes: Future of front-ends and developers. [26:30] Evolution of crypto law: Has it aligned with Palley's expectations? [31:45] Insurance and digital assets: Parametric insurance, oracles and blockchain technology. & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
7/30/202352 minutes, 6 seconds
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#108 - The Solana Foundation's Amira Valliani on Web 3 Policy

Amira Valliani (@amiravalliani) is Policy Lead at the Solana Foundation. She previously built and sold a creator economy company and served as an advisor at the White House and State Department. Note that this episode was recorded prior to the Ripple Labs decision. Show highlights: [3:00] Policy work at Solana Foundation [7:00] Change in policy [10:30] Challenges and stories of building in Web3 [24:00] Amira's role at the White House [29:00] Building Glow & more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
7/26/202330 minutes, 57 seconds
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#107 - Accredited Investor Rules with Larry Florio

Offering a masterclass on the Accredited Investor rules, this episode distills months of historic research and detailed reviews of the securities laws, as well as a 3+ hour conversation I had with Larry Florio (@larryflorio), into an evergreen episode providing everything one should know regarding the accredited investor standards in the U.S. and across the globe. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
7/22/20231 hour, 33 minutes, 27 seconds
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#106 - Bitcoin Ordinals and IP Considerations with Cameron Pick

Cameron B. Pick is a partner at Marshall Gerstein & Borun LLP who advises clients in the blockchain and metaverse space on intellectual property issues. In this episode, Cameron explains Bitcoin Ordinals, the difference between Ordinals and NFTs, and the interplay between IP law and web3. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
7/20/202341 minutes, 47 seconds
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#105 - Blockchain and the Sports Industry with Samir Patel

Samir Patel (@SamirPatelLaw) is an innovation and technology attorney in Holland & Knight's Miami office and head of the firm's Document Automation Program. Samir represents startups and emerging growth companies navigating legal and regulatory issues. Samir also works with artists, art galleries and athletes looking to enhance their products and brands through the creation of NFTs, and advises on their market entrance strategy into the metaverse. In 2021, Samir was appointed to the first-ever Miami-Dade County Cryptocurrency Task Force. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
7/18/202358 minutes, 8 seconds
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#104 - Wachtell Lipton's David Adlerstein and Kevin Schwartz on Decentralization, Smart Contracts, Tornado Cash & NFTs

David M. Adlerstein is counsel in the Corporate Department at Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz. His practice focuses on mergers and acquisitions, capital-raising transactions, corporate governance, and other corporate and securities law matters, with a focus on financial institutions and technology transactions. He is a member of the Firm’s Crypto Team and frequently writes and speaks about blockchain technology, cryptocurrencies and smart contracts. Kevin Schwartz is a partner in the Litigation Department of Wachtell Lipton and serves on the Executive Committee of the New York City Bar Association, where he was previously Chair of the Judiciary Committee, and is also a Visiting Lecturer in Law at Yale Law School. Mr. Schwartz’s practice includes corporate, commercial, and securities litigation at both the trial and appellate levels, as well as a variety of regulatory and corporate governance matters that include leading the firm’s specialized Crypto Team to address rapidly changing issues generated by the crypto asset industry.  Show highlights: [3:00] David and Kevin's introduction to crypto [14:00] Evolution of the legal side of digital assets [24:30] The merits of decentralization [33:00] Tornado Cash [41:00] Smart contracts [47:00] NFTs & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
7/11/20231 hour, 9 minutes, 42 seconds
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#108 - Solana Foundation's Amira Valliani on Crypto Policy

Amira Valliani (@amiravalliani) is Policy Lead at the Solana Foundation. She previously built and sold a creator economy company (Glow) and served as an advisor at the White House and State Department. Show highlights: [0:50] Genesis block [3:00] Policy work at Solana Foundation [7:30] Opportunities for change in policy [10:30] Challenges of building in web3 [24:00] Amira's role at the White House [29:00] Building Glow & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
7/1/202330 minutes, 57 seconds
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#103 - Tom Lombardi on Bitcoin ETFs, Institutional Investors and SEC's proposed custody rules

Tom Lombardi (@tomlombardi) is an adjunct professor of finance at Pepperdine University, California, teaching Decentralized Finance in the Business School. He was formerly a Managing Director at 3iQ (worked on the first regulated crypto fund), Director at Wave Financial (one of the first crypto RIAs), and Head of Growth for the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance. Show highlights: [8:00] Importance of institutional investments in digital assets [16:00] Bitcoin and institutional investors [24:00] Bitcoin Spot ETF [39:00] SEC proposed custody rule [42:00] SEC actions pre-Coinbase and Binance charges [59:00] Bitcoin is Venice? [68:00] Regulation and technology & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
6/29/20231 hour, 17 minutes, 38 seconds
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#102 - A Masterclass on Global Crypto Regulations with XReg Consulting

Nicky Gomez (@XRegNicky) is the Senior Partner at XReg Consulting. A former regulator with 15+ years of experience in the crypto and financial services industries, Nicky provides strategic regulatory advice and has successfully secured licenses and authorizations for clients in Europe, Gibraltar, the Caribbean and Asia. As the co-chair of the Global Digital Finance AML working group, he helps shape global cryptoasset regulatory standards that mitigate risk and encourage innovation. Aaron Unterman is the managing director of XReg Consulting (Cayman) SEZC. Aaron previously worked in the derivatives branch of Canada’s largest market regulator, the Ontario Securities Commission, and recently led the development of CIMA’s regulatory framework for virtual asset service providers, including developing rules and guidance for custodians, trading platforms, issuances and the sandbox regime. Show highlights: [3:00] Introduction to crypto while working as regulators [12:00] XReg's international approach to consulting [15:00] Classifying regulatory approaches to crypto in different jurisdictions [21:00] Jurisdictions introducing comprehensive crypto rules [29:00] Jurisdictions where crypto assets are illegal [34:00] Global regulatory harmonization (IOSCO) [47:00] DeFi regulation & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
6/26/20231 hour, 49 seconds
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#101 - Legal Wrappers for DAOs: DAO Research Monthly

The goal of this podcast is to help DAOs and their members understand the potential legal wrappers which arise from bespoke legislation. This is the second episode of the DAO Research Monthly series, created by Jacob Robinson, Kyle Smith and Kyler Wandler. This episode reviews the legal wrappers created for DAOs. What do we mean when we say legal wrapper? What benefits do they offer DAOs and their members? What are the risks? We answer these questions and much more. [4:30] Evolution of the modern company [8:15] How DAOs build on the company [12:00] Legal wrappers as a bridge [20:00] Wyoming DAO law [25:00] UNA [29:00] Tennessee DAO law [31:00] DAOs in Texas [33:40] DAOs in Utah [43:00] Vermont blockchain-based LLC [53:16] Catawba Economic Zone [54:00] DAOs outside the US & much more. Thank you to our sponsors, the DAO Research Collective, Lobby 3 and Tally DAO, for supporting this educational initiative - and thank you to Kyler Wandler for his incredible research. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
6/23/20231 hour, 14 minutes, 56 seconds
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#100 - Why Crypto?

This podcast answers the "why" behind the blockchain space. It is a compilation of answers given from previous guests of Law of Code who explain why they believe in this technology, why they work in this space and what gets them excited about the future. This podcast was largely inspired by Polygon's Value Prop, a crowd-sourced and entirely open database, created to showcase the diverse and unique use cases for blockchain technology – across all networks – which are making an impact throughout the world. The Value Prop highlights 39 separate use cases for blockchain technology, with a total of 304 applications. 100 episodes, thank you.
6/21/202330 minutes, 28 seconds
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#99 - Overview of Crypto Regulation in USA and Canada with DLx Law and McCarthy Tetrault

In this episode of Law of Code, partners at McCarthy Tetrault's Fintech practice Ana Badour and Lori Stein, along with DLx Law's Lewis Cohen, Angela Angelovska-Wilson and Greg Strong discuss the differences in crypto regulation between Canada and the US, from securities rules to banking and AML policies. Show highlights: [3:00] Binance and Coinbase SEC charges [11:00] Digital assets and investment contracts [21:00] Differences in the Canadian approach to secondary sales [32:00] Banking and AML history, rules and outlook [48:00] Access to banking in US and Canada [50:00] Q&A & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
6/16/20231 hour, 4 minutes, 37 seconds
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#98 - Understanding the Coinbase and Binance SEC charges with Collins Belton

Collins Belton (@collins_belton) is the founder and Managing Partner of Brookwood P.C., a boutique transactional practice focused on serving founders, startups and emerging technology companies working on frontier technology, particularly in the digital asset space. Collins was previously Counsel at Atrium and an Associate at Wilson Sonsini. Show highlights: [1:40] Binance charges from SEC [10:45] Is BUSD a security? [23:00] Binance complaint alleging tokens are securities [30:00] Binance asset freeze [36:45] Coinbase charges from SEC [44:00] Coinbase's S1 registration & staking [48:40] Agency overreach [56:00] Show cause orders in multiple states [60:00] What the future holds Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
6/12/20231 hour, 13 minutes, 32 seconds
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#97 - Grayscale's Craig Salm on a Bitcoin ETF & the SEC

Craig Salm (@CraigSalm) is the Chief Legal Officer at Grayscale Investments, the world's largest digital currency asset manager, where he oversees the daily legal and regulatory operations of the business and its products. Prior to joining Grayscale, Craig was a corporate associate at Paul Weiss.  This episode builds on a previous episode covering everything you need to know about the Grayscale lawsuit against the SEC. Show highlights: [2:00] Genesis block [13:00] Learnings from Paul Weiss [17:00] Grayscale ETF Case [24:00] What if Grayscale wins? [33:00] Fraud and surveillance ETF mechanisms & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
5/23/202347 minutes, 57 seconds
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#96 - Investment Contracts & Crypto: Takeaways from 300+ Cases with DLx Law's Freeman Lewin

Freeman Lewin (@Freeman_Lewin) is an Attorney at DLx Law, where he advises clients in all matters related to blockchain, smart contracts, and tokenization. In late 2022, the DLx Law team published a comprehensive analysis of every "investment contract" decision by U.S. appellate courts since 1946: The Ineluctable Modality of Securities Law: Why Fungible Crypto Assets are Not Securities. Their publication has since been cited in Coinbase's response to the an SEC Wells Notice, the Dissent of Commissioner Hester M. Peirce and other important matters. This conversation offers a masterclass on investment contracts - what they are, why they matter and how they relate to digital assets. Show highlights: [2:08] Consequences of being deemed an investment contract [8:49] The investment contract vs the object of the investment [16:02] The Howey case [21:59] Core traits of an investment contract [24:46] Changes to the Howey test since 1946 [31:20] Biggest myths and misunderstandings surrounding investment contracts [34:10] Future of crypto & investment contracts & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
5/17/202339 minutes, 12 seconds
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#95 - Caitlin Long on Custodia Bank, Crypto & the Federal Reserve

Caitlin Long (@CaitlinLong_) is a 22-year Wall Street veteran active in bitcoin since 2012, and whose passion is a fair and stable financial system. She is also the founder and CEO of Custodia Bank, a chartered US bank specializing in digital assets. Show highlights: [1:40] Operation Chokepoint 2.0? [4:40] Importance of Access to the Federal Reserve System [9:25] Origins of Operation Chokepoint [17:20] Custodia Bank [24:00] Checks & Balances [29:23] What's Next for Custodia Bank [31:00] Habits & Advice & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
5/4/202335 minutes, 6 seconds
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#94 - The Blockchain Association on Crypto De-Banking

This conversation with two prominent members of the Blockchain Association covers de-banking in crypto, hostility from regulators and the state of crypto in America. Jake Chervinsky (@jchervinsky) is the Chief Policy Officer at Blockchain Association, the largest advocacy group for the crypto industry in Washington DC. Jake is also one of Variant Fund’s strategic advisors and a board member at the DeFi Education Fund. Marisa Tashman Coppel (@mtcoppel) is Policy Counsel at the Blockchain Association where she helps develop and advocate for policy positions on behalf of the crypto industry as well as manages long-term legal projects and strategic litigation. Show highlights: [2:00] De-banking and Freedom of Information Act request [8:20] Operation Chokepoint 1.0 [13:50] Banking crypto [21:00] What's next for the Blockchain Association [29:00] Hostility from regulators & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
4/25/202359 minutes, 39 seconds
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#93 - Canadian Crypto Consolidation with Coinsquare's Eric Richmond

Eric Richmond (@ericrichy) is the Chief Operating Officer at Coinsquare and a Co-Founder and Director at Tetra Trust Company. In this episode, we discuss consolidation in the Canadian crypto space (Coinsquare, WonderFi and CoinSmart), Coinsquare's IIROC Membership, Tetra Trust custody solution & much more. [1:33] Consolidating three crypto asset exchanges [9:30] IIROC membership [18:00] Tetra Trust & cold storage [27:00] Bear markets [30:00] Bailment & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
4/17/202340 minutes, 13 seconds
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#92 - Explaining the 2022 UCC Amendments, with Professor Carla Reyes

Carla L. Reyes (@Prof_CarlaReyes) is an Assistant Professor of Law at SMU Dedman School of Law. Professor Reyes is a nationally recognized leader on issues raised by the intersection of business law and technology. Professor Reyes was appointed the Chair of the Texas Work Group on Blockchain Matters in September 2021. The work group is charged with considering policy priorities related to blockchain technology in Texas. Professor Reyes was also named an American Bar Foundation Fellow in June 2021 and named one of the Women of Legal Tech 2020, an honor bestowed by the American Bar Association Legal Technology Resource Center. Professor Reyes currently serves as the Research Director for the Uniform Law Commission’s Technology Committee, an Associate Research Director of the Permanent Editorial Board of the Uniform Commercial Code, an Expert Member of the UNIDROIT Work Group on Private Law and Digital Assets, and an Expert Member of the UNIDROIT Work Group on Best Practices for Effective Enforcement. Professor Reyes also contributed to the Uniform Law Commission and American Law Institute 2022 Amendments to the Uniform Commercial Code. Show topics: 2022 UCC Amendments Emerging Technology's Unfamiliarity with Commercial Law Moving Beyond Bitcoin to an Endogenous Theory of Decentralized Technology Regulation: An Initial Proposal Distributed Governance If Rockefeller Were a Coder & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
4/13/20231 hour, 8 minutes, 12 seconds
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#91 - Liquid Staking Tokens as Non-Securities with POSA

The Proof of Stake Alliance (POSA) is an action-oriented, nonprofit industry alliance advocating for forward-thinking public policies that foster innovation in rapidly growing, sustainable, multi-billion dollar proof-of-stake ecosystems. POSA brings together industry leaders and legal experts to fight for fair regulation that allows the industry to flourish. Guests include: Alison Mangiero (@AMangiero) is the Executive Director of the Proof of Stake Alliance.  Alexander Grieve (@AlexanderGrieve) is Vice President in Tiger Hill Partners’ government relations practice.   Justin Browder (@jlb410) is a partner in Willkie's Asset Management Department and Co-Chair of the Willkie Digital Works practice.  Michael Selig (@MikeSeligEsq) is counsel in the Asset Management Department and a member of the Willkie Digital Works practice. The Proof of Stake Alliance recently published legal/regulatory white papers on liquid staking. Liquid staking is a technological solution that provides liquidity and increased capital efficiency for participants in proof of stake blockchain networks; users who stake their cryptoassets receive transferable Receipt Tokens that evidence ownership of (i) the staked cryptoassets, and (ii) Network Rewards that accrue in respect of such staked cryptoasset.  The papers represent the first public legal research and analysis of liquid staking tokens under U.S. federal securities, commodities, and tax law, with the aim to resolve key legal questions around the regulation & taxation of liquid staking in the U.S. Papers: U.S. Federal Securities and Commodity Law Analysis of Liquid Staking Receipt Tokens U.S. Federal Income Tax Analysis of Liquid Staking Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
4/10/20231 hour, 13 minutes
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#90 - Offshore & Crypto in the BVI, Caymans and Guernsey with Chris Duncan

Chris Duncan (@chrisrossduncan) is counsel in Carey Olsen’s Cayman Islands office. Chris leads their Fintech and Crypto group across both the Cayman Islands and the British Virgin Islands, working with some of the largest projects in the crypto space on structuring and regulatory matters (including licensing applications and regulatory investigations).  He has been recognized in the Chambers and Partners Fintech guide as a leading individual. In addition, Chris advises high net worth and ultra high net worth clients on wealth structuring, with a particular focus on crypto and tech founders. Show highlights: [4:40] 2020 Cayman VASP Act [11:30] 2023 BVI VASP Act [13:00] Offshore structuring [27:00] Offshore DAOs [33:00] Guernsey Trusts & more.Chris also mentions Mauve (@mauve_org), the first DEX with the compliance of traditional finance. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
4/5/202343 minutes, 9 seconds
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#89 - Legal liability for DAO members: DAO Research Monthly

The goal of this podcast is to help DAOs and their members understand the potential legal risks that accompany their membership. This is the inaugural episode of the DAO Research Monthly series, created by Jacob Robinson, Kyle Smith and Kyler Wandler. This episode reviews the legal liability of members associated with DAOs. What do we mean when we say liability? What could a token holder or vote be liable for? We answer these questions and much more. Thank you to our sponsors, the DAO Research Collective, Lobby 3 and Tally DAO, for supporting this educational initiative - and thank you to the research team: Kyler Wandler, Evan Santos, Surya Dawar. This episode references the following works: Law Insider, Member Liability definition Frank H. Easterbrook, Daniel Fischel, Contract and Fiduciary Duty Nick Oberheiden, 5 Things to Consider When Creating a DAO Owen Thomas, The CFTC throws DAO liability into question United States Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, Pat Toomey, SEC’s Regulation by Enforcement Approach Harmed Consumers The Company - A Short History of a Revolutionary Idea, John Micklethwait and Adrian Wooldridge Stephen D. Palley, How to Sue a Decentralized Autonomous Organization, CoinDesk (Op-Ed), March 20, 2016. Carla Reyes, If Rockefeller Were a Coder, 87 Geo. Wash. L. Rev. 373 (2019) Aaron Wright, The Rise of Decentralized Autonomous Organizations: Opportunities and Challenges, Stanford Journal of Blockchain Law & Policy (2021). Brummer, Christopher J. and Seira, Rodrigo, Legal Wrappers and DAOs (May 30, 2022). Available at SSRN: https://ssrn.com/abstract=4123737 Østbye, Peder, Exploring DAO Members' Individual Liability (February 28, 2022). Available at SSRN: https://ssrn.com/abstract=4045799. Metjahic, Laila, Deconstructing The Dao: The Need For Legal Recognition And The Application Of Securities Laws To Decentralized Organizations, Cardozo Law Review, May 2018. CFTC v Ooki DAO, N.D. Cal. 3:22-cv-5416 (2022) & many others. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
4/1/202352 minutes, 19 seconds
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#88 - Tax attorney Andrew Gordon answers the most common crypto tax questions.

Andrew Gordon (@accounting) is a crypto tax attorney and CPA based in Chicago. He and his firm, Gordon Law Group (@gordonlawltd), have focused on crypto tax since 2014; They've since prepared hundreds of crypto tax returns for retail investors, whales, celebrity clients, and NFT startups. Andrew also practices corporate law with a focus on blockchain, affiliate marketing, esports, and tech and teaches a course on Emerging Technologies at Chicago-Kent College of Law. Andrew explains his entry into the space, how he built Gordon Law Group, and answers the most common crypto tax questions, including: Buying crypto from crypto Selling crypto for crypto Selling crypto for fiat Selling NFTs for crypto Buying NFTs with crypto Staking crypto with delegate Receiving staking rewards Airdropped NFTs Airdropped crypto Donating crypto  Stolen crypto Lending crypto Gas Fees Resources: Contact the Gordon Law Group for help and/or sign up for their monthly newsletter. Visit their website to review their crypto, nft and defi tax guides. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
3/27/202355 minutes, 21 seconds
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#87 - Paradigm's Rodrigo Seira on DAOs, legal wrappers & CC0.

Rodrigo Seira (@RSSH273) is Crypto Counsel at Paradigm. Prior to joining Paradigm, he was outside counsel to crypto investors and entrepreneurs at Cooley LLP. Prior to that, Rodrigo was a founding member of DLX Law, a blockchain and crypto focused boutique. Rodrigo earned a J.D. from Harvard Law School and a B.A. in Philosophy and Political Science from Middlebury College. Rodrigo authored a matrix comparing legal entities available for DAOs across a range of criteria, including formation requirements and considerations about liability of members, securities laws and tax. It’s available on a public Notion page. He also co-authored a paper on Legal Wrappers and DAOs. Show highlights: [1:30] Genesis block [4:30] Crypto use cases [6:30] Paradigm [9:00] Ooki DAO [15:00] DAO member liability [25:00] Offshore wrappers [31:00] Matrix [33:00] CC0 and NFTs & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
3/21/202343 minutes, 13 seconds
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#86 - Jason Schwartz on Taxes for DAOs, Foundations & Bearer Debt

Jason Schwartz (@CryptoTaxGuyETH) is a tax partner and co-heads Fried Frank's Digital Assets and Blockchain Practice. He specializes in tax issues relating to financial products, securitizations, funds, treaties, lending, and digital assets. Jason has been recognized as an "Up and Coming" lawyer in Tax by Chambers USA and as a "Next Generation Partner" by Legal 500 US in Tax: Financial Products each year from 2017 to 2022. Jason wrote Reading the Tea Leaves - What Enforcement Actions Mean for the U.S. Taxation of Crypto, which we also discuss. Show highlights: [2:04] Genesis Block [10:00] 501 Foundry [13:00] Foundations & Taxes [16:00] Tokens & Charities [27:00] DAOs [36:00] Jarrett Case & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
3/16/202354 minutes, 52 seconds
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#85 - An Update on Grayscale vs the SEC

A panel of judges heard oral arguments in the Grayscale Investments suit against the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) on March 7.  This podcast dives into the history of GBTC, the SEC's reasoning for rejecting the spot-bitcoin ETF, Grayscale's argument against the SEC and an overview of what we heard during the oral arguments on March 7. We also cover what thought leaders in the industry expect the outcome to be, and why this application is so important to Grayscale. Sources: The United States Court of Appeals for the DC Circuit / YouTube Self-Regulatory Organizations; NYSE Arca, Inc.; Order Disapproving a Proposed Rule Change, as Modified by Amendment No. 1, to List and Trade Shares of Grayscale Bitcoin Trust under NYSE Arca Rule 8.201-E (Commodity-Based Trust Shares) / SEC GBTC discount narrows following arguments in Grayscale-SEC lawsuit / Yahoo Grayscale Appears To Win Opening Salvo in Bitcoin ETF Case vs SEC / Blockworks Judges Express Skepticism of SEC Arguments in Grayscale Bitcoin ETF Hearing / CoinDesk @JSeyff @NYCStein @xethalis Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
3/10/202321 minutes, 33 seconds
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#84 - Nelson Rosario on zk proofs, DAOs, liability and regulation

Nelson Rosario (@NelsonMRosario) is an attorney in Chicago, IL, USA, and the founder of Rosario Tech Law whose interests comprise law, innovation, cryptocurrencies and related blockchain based technologies. Nelson teaches a law school class “Blockchain, Cryptocurrency, and the Law,” at Chicago-Kent College of Law, and has been a visiting professor at IE Law School based in Madrid, Spain. Show highlights: [2:00] Crypto and zk proofs [13:00] DAOs [18:00] Liability [31:00] Politics & more. Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can subscribe here. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
3/7/202348 minutes, 26 seconds
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#83 - Cybersecurity & Crypto with Justin Daniels

Justin Daniels is a cybersecurity SME and M&A attorney at Baker Donelson, where he advises corporate clients on the deployment and scaling of technology that ranges from SaaS, Fintech and data centers to autonomous vehicles, drones and cryptocurrency. Justin has co-authored a book (Data Reimagined: Building Trust One Byte at a Time) designed to show businesses how to leverage privacy and security practices to transform their relationships with customers and earn their trust. In this episode, we discuss cybersecurity and crypto, with a deep dive into the Axie Infinity hack. Show highlights: [5:00] Hosting servers and security [19:00] Cybersecurity and digital assets [22:00] Axie Infinity Hack [34:00] Digital trust & much more. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
2/27/202347 minutes, 12 seconds
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#82 - Gabriel Shapiro, Sarah Brennan and Marc Goldich on staking, social slashing, disclosure, LexPunK and crypto law in 2023.

Three of the brightest minds in crypto law discuss LexPunK highlights from 2022, touch on disclosures regimes, sufficient decentralization, compare crypto native remedies to the current legal system, and much more.   Gabriel Shapiro (@lex_node) is General Counsel at Delphi Labs. Sarah Brennan (@SH_Brennan) is General Counsel for both Delphi Research and Delphi Ventures. Marc Goldich (@marcgoldich) is General Counsel of Proximity Labs.  Show highlights:  [2:00] LexPunK highlights from 2022  [10:00] DAO Defense Manual  [14:00] Reg ATS  [20:00] Disclosure in crypto  [31:00] Social slashing and crypto native remedies  [54:00] Decentralization, legally  [58:00] What the group is keeping an eye on in 2023  & much more.  If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review.  Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can subscribe here.  Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
2/22/20231 hour, 19 minutes, 13 seconds
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#81 - Regulators and Crypto with Michael Selig

Michael Selig (@MikeSeligEsq) is counsel in the Asset Management Department of the law firm Willkie Farr & Gallagher and part of the firm’s crypto practice. Michael’s practice centers on the application of financial regulation to crypto and web3 technology networks and products, including blockchains and crypto assets. Michael previously worked at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission in the office of former Chair Chris Giancarlo, also known as “CryptoDad,” who he now works with again in private practice at Willkie. In this conversation, Michael shares his experience at the CFTC and provides best practices for dealing with regulators. We also discuss his CoinDesk article What If Regulators Wrote Rules for Crypto?, LBRY, Telegram and the application of securities laws to crypto. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can subscribe here. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
2/16/20231 hour, 5 minutes, 42 seconds
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#80 - NFT Projects & IP Considerations with Marco Ciarlariello

Marco Ciarlariello is a member of the Business Law Group and serves as the Chair of the Blockchain & Cryptocurrency Group at Cassels Brock & Blackwell LLP. Marco is a commercial lawyer with a practice that focuses on intellectual property, information technology and data privacy in the digital asset space. Marco works extensively with a range of clients in the digital asset space, including service providers, NFT issuers, designers and developers. Marco also frequently works with clients in the creative, sports and entertainment industries. This conversation provides a list of IP considerations for NFT projects. Show highlights: [2:04] Copyright law [5:20] When NFT projects should approach a lawyer re: IP [9:30] Copyright ownership [13:20] Transferring copyright [18:40] Moral rights [29:20] Legal considerations for NFT projects [46:00] NFT licenses & much more. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can find this incredible resource here. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
2/13/20231 hour, 2 minutes, 12 seconds
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#79 - Jason Gottlieb on Pre-Crypto Scandals, DAOs and Legal Liability

Jason Gottlieb (@ohaiom) is a Partner at Morrison Cohen LLP, where he chairs the Digital Assets group and the White Collar and Regulatory Enforcement practice group. Jason is the principal author of the MoCo Cryptocurrency Litigation Tracker and was named to the National Law Journal‘s inaugural list of Cryptocurrency, Blockchain and Fintech Trailblazers.  Show highlights: [1:50] Refco [6:40] Why crypto [19:00] DAO member liability [26:00] Legal wrappers & much more. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can find this incredible resource here. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
2/6/202335 minutes, 58 seconds
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#78 - Grayscale Bitcoin Trust & Bitcoin ETPs with Greg Xethalis

Greg Xethalis (@xethalis) is General Counsel and Chief Compliance Officer at Multicoin Capital. He is on the board at the Association for Digital Asset Markets & Fordham Law Alumni Association. Greg also is a senior lecturing fellow at Duke Law, where he co-taught Blockchain and FinTech Law and Policy.  This episode offers a deep dive into the GBTC, Bitcoin-backed ETPs and the Investment Act of 1940. Show highlights: [1:45] Genesis block [9:25] Bitcoin ETP [14:20] GBTC [17:00] Shadow ETP [26:00] Algorithmic stablecoins & much more. -- If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can find this incredible resource here. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
1/30/20231 hour, 14 minutes, 11 seconds
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#77 - Aaron Wright on crypto: laws, labs and DAOs.

Aaron Wright (@awrigh01) is the CEO and co-founder of @TributeLabsXYZ, as well as @TheLAOOfficial, @flamingoDAO, & many more. He’s a Professor at Cardozo Law, authored a book relating to the laws surrounding blockchain technology: Blockchain and the Law: The Rule of Code, and wrote many great articles. Before this, Aaron was a successful entrepreneur, having sold his first company to Wikia - the for-profit version of Wikipedia. Today, Aaron is a renowned thought-leader in the blockchain space at the forefront of DAOs. Show highlights: [2:00] Aaron's first business, Armchair GM [6:40] Aaron's introduction to crypto [11:00] Current stage of crypto [13:00] Writing Blockchain and the Law [24:00] Tribute Labs [29:00] DAOs in 5 years & much more. Aaron’s spoken on many other podcasts, which you can find here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c54PzVtpL60, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwERbY9MUok, https://podcasts.apple.com/kz/podcast/a-dao-masterclass-with-aaron-wright/id1438148082?i=1000503097469, https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cDovL3VuY2hhaW5lZC5saWJzeW4uY29tL3VuY2hhaW5lZA/episode/NjY0ZjZjODYtNjg3OS00ZmU5LThhNjEtNGFmMDE4ZDY0YmQy , https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9zZWVkY2x1Yi5saWJzeW4uY29tL3Jzcw/episode/YWQxNGMwYTQtYzE4Ni00N2NlLWE3YmEtZWI3MGZkNWI2MGUx?hl=en-CA&ved=2ahUKEwjYyfHL-9D4AhVTbc0KHXn3AlEQjrkEegQIChAU&ep=6. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can find this incredible resource here. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
1/9/202358 minutes, 42 seconds
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#76 - Why digital assets are not securities, with Lewis Cohen and the DLx Law team

Securities regulators in the United States have repeatedly asserted that most fungible blockchain-based crypto assets are clearly securities under current law. This assertion is incorrect. An exhaustive review of the relevant appellate case law and the related legal scholarship demonstrates that this position is inconsistent with the Supreme Court’s definition of the term “investment contract” as developed by federal appellate courts for nearly a century. This is a panel discussion on the paper by the DLx Law (@DLxLawLLP) team, "The Ineluctable Modality of Securities Law: Why Fungible Crypto Assets are Not Securities.” It is a two-part series, where both Eric Hess (@hess_legal) and I (@JacobRobinsonJD) interview members of the DLx team.  You can find part 2 on Eric's podcast, the Encrypted Economy, here.  Guests Lewis Cohen (@NYcryptolawyer) is a co-founder of DLx Law, where his practice is focused on the use of blockchain and tokenization across capital markets. Lewis is also recognized by Chambers Global as one of only five lawyers in “Band 1” for Legal: Blockchain & Cryptocurrencies.  Gregory Strong is an attorney at DLx Law, where he focuses on advising entities regarding legal issues associated with the adoption of blockchain technology. Prior to joining DLx Law, Greg was a Deputy Attorney General in the Delaware Department of Justice. He served as the Director of the Investor Protection Unit for three years and was responsible for administering and enforcing the provisions of the Delaware Securities Act.  Sarah Chen (@sarahcwy143) is an attorney at DLx Law, where, along with her colleagues, she focuses on matters related to the use of blockchain technology, including general corporate, venture financing, securities laws and financial regulations. Prior to joining DLx Law, Sarah was a senior associate at a top M&A practice in New York. Sarah received her B.A. from New York University, and her J.D. from Columbia Law School.  Freeman Lewin (@Freeman_Lewin) is an attorney at DLx Law, where, along with his colleagues, he focuses on securities and financial regulatory matters related to blockchain and cryptocurrency projects and institutional investors. Freeman received his B.A. in Religion from Concordia University in Montreal and his J.D. from Yeshiva University Cardozo School of Law where he was part of the Cardozo Blockchain Project.  Notes If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can find this incredible resource here. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
1/4/20231 hour, 57 seconds
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#75 - UCC Article 12 Amendments with Drew Hinkes and Andrea Tosato

Andrew "Drew" Hinkes (@propelforward) is a partner in K&L Gates Miami office and the Co-Chair of its Global crypto practice. Drew is an Adjunct Professor of Law at the NYU School of Law, where he co-teaches "Digital Currency, Blockchains, and the Future of the Financial Services Industry.” Since 2019, Drew has been an advisor to the Uniform Law Commission’s Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) and Emerging Technologies Digital Assets Working Group, focusing on commercial transactions involving digital assets. Dr Andrea Tosato (@Andrea_Tosato) is an Associate Professor in Commercial Law at the School of Law of the University of Nottingham and a Visiting Associate Professor at the University of Pennsylvania Law School. Andrea was actively involved in the ULC/ALI UCC and Emerging Technologies Committee that drafted the amendments to the UCC to accommodate emerging technology developments. At present, he is contributing to the adoption and enactment process of this novel legal framework at state level.  Show highlights [3:40] What is Article 12? [15:40] Process of creating Article 12 [30:00] Controllable electronic records [42:00] Benefits of Article 12 [49:00] Filing financial statements & much more Links Article: Carla L. Reyes, Creating Cryptolaw for the Uniform Commercial Code Article: Kara J. Burce, Christopher K. Odinet, and Andrea Tosato, The Private Law of Stablecoins If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can find this incredible resource here. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
12/13/20221 hour, 16 minutes, 28 seconds
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#74 - Bill Hughes of ConsenSys on Money Crypto vs Tech Crypto

Bill Hughes (@BillHughesDC) is senior counsel and director of global regulatory matters at ConsenSys Software, which is behind MetaMask, Infura, and various other software supporting the programmable blockchain ecosystem. Bill focuses on the diverse and ever evolving crypto global regulatory landscape, and the legal and public policy issues with which ConsenSys and the broader crypto ecosystem is grappling. Bill joined ConsenSys after serving as an Associate Deputy Attorney General at the Department of Justice. Bill also has served at the White House, where he oversaw various operational components.  Show highlights:  [2:00] The state of crypto post-FTX  [12:00] Smart contracts   [16:40] The White House  [24:00] Bill's role at ConsenSys  [31:00] Specializing in a legal career  [39:00] Money Crypto & Tech Crypto  & much more.  If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.  Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can find this incredible resource here.  Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
12/7/20221 hour, 19 minutes, 3 seconds
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#73 - A Primer on the DAO Research Collective

The DAO Research Collective (@DAOResearchCo) is a non-profit accelerating DAO functionality by procuring and open-sourcing research foundational to effective DAO operation. Their DAO Library aggregates and curates DAO research on a single platform. It is a public good that will always be accessible to the community at no cost.  Connor Spelliscy (@c_spelliscy) is the Founder and Executive Director of the DAO Research Collective. He is a crypto researcher and advocate, primarily focused on DAOs. Connor previously co-founded the Blockchain Association and the Canadian Web3 Council. David Kerr (@David_M_Kerr) is the Head of Research at the DAO Research Collective and the Principal of Cowrie LLC. At Cowrie, David uses ten years of experience in tax strategy, financial accounting, and risk advisory in the tech industry to produce research and advise crypto projects. Show highlights [1:00] Why start the DRC? [10:30] How the DRC adds value to the community [15:00] Why DAOs are important [24:00] DAOs and future regulation [37:00] DRC's roadmap [50:00] How people can get involved with the DRC & much more. Closing If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. PSA: Ledn is looking to hire crypto-focused, financial-payments savvy lawyer as their Senior Counsel. You can learn more about the role here: https://jobs.lever.co/ledn. Tell them you heard about the job from the Law of Code podcast. Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can find this incredible (and free) resource here. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
12/1/202249 minutes, 45 seconds
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#72 - Dane Lund of Alliance on DAOs, finding a Web3 attorney and the DCCPA

Dane Lund (@lund_dane) is Head DAO Architect at Alliance, the leading Web3 accelerator and founder community. He started his career as an attorney at Wilkie Farr and pivoted into finance as investment banker and investor.  Show highlights [3:19] Defining DAOs [4:45] Alliance DAO [10:00] How projects get involved with Alliance [11:30] Dane's DAO Lecture @ Cornell [41:00] Law in the Metaverse [47:30] Finding a web3 lawyer [52:00] How attorney's can better work with clients [55:00] DCCPA & much more. Resources Dane's lecture notes for Cornell's Crypto Assets and Web3 Seminar US Securities Primer Finding and Vetting Web3 Attorneys: Five Lessons Closing If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. PSA: Ledn is looking to hire crypto-focused, financial-payments savvy lawyer as their Senior Counsel. You can learn more about the role here: https://jobs.lever.co/ledn. Tell them you heard about the job from the Law of Code podcast. Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can find this incredible (and free) resource here. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
11/21/20221 hour, 8 minutes, 47 seconds
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#71 - Carol Van Cleef on E-Gold, de-banking of digital asset businesses, and Tornado Cash sanctions

Carol Van Cleef (@Carol_VanCleef) is an internationally recognized authority and pioneer in legal issues involving cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology. As chair of Bradley’s Blockchain and Digital Assets practice, Carol leads the firm’s virtual currencies and blockchain work to help clients navigate the complex, dynamic and rapidly evolving issues in these areas. Carol is also an anti-money laundering specialist and has created compliance training programs for state regulators, bank executives and beyond. Show highlights: [7:00] E-Gold [12:00] Classifying digital assets [22:00] Tornado Cash [32:40] Applying sanctions [40:00] De-banking & much more.  If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. PSA: Ledn is looking to hire crypto-focused, financial-payments savvy lawyer as their Senior Counsel. You can learn more about the role here: https://jobs.lever.co/ledn. Tell them you heard about the job from the Law of Code podcast. Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can find this incredible (and free) resource here. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
11/15/202258 minutes, 37 seconds
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#70 - Paul Grewal, Chief Legal Officer @ Coinbase on securities, sanctions & regulation.

Paul Grewal (@iampaulgrewal) is the Chief Legal Officer of Coinbase, where he is responsible for Coinbase’s legal, compliance, global intelligence, risk management and government relations groups. Before joining Coinbase, Paul was Vice President and Deputy General Counsel at Facebook.   Show highlights:  [1:40] Paul's role as Chief Legal Officer @ Coinbase  [6:30] Introduction to crypto as a magistrate judge  [12:30] Rule-making in crypto law  [16:30] Listing assets on Coinbase  [22:00] Tornado Cash lawsuit  [32:00] Remaining grounded  [34:25] Playing offense against regulators  [38:00] Regulation by enforcement  & much more.   Resources:  Stanford Talk Proof of Alignment Coinbase does not list securities The Crypto Securities Market is Waiting to be Unlocked. But First We Need Workable Rules Closing  If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.  PSA: Ledn is looking to hire crypto-focused, financial-payments savvy lawyer as their Senior Counsel. You can learn more about the role here: https://jobs.lever.co/ledn. Tell them you heard about the job from the Law of Code podcast.  Around the Blockchain's weekly newsletter is my go-to source to stay updated on crypto law - you can find this incredible (and free) resource here.   Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
11/8/20221 hour, 11 minutes, 19 seconds
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#69 - Rebecca Rettig on DeFi Regulation: past, present & future.

Rebecca Rettig (@RebeccaRettig1) is the General Counsel of the Aave Companies (@AaveAave). Rebecca began her legal career at Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP in New York, litigating complex commercial disputes; prior to joining the Aave Companies, Rebecca was a partner at Manatt, Phelps & Phillips LLP in the financial services group, representing blockchain and crypto clients.  In this conversation, Rebecca shares her thoughts on DeFi regulation, as well as: [5:30] Bringing clients through the regulatory enforcement process  [6:45] Ooki DAO [16:00] Regulatory Catch-22 [23:00] DeFi & Regulation: Can they co-exist? [37:00] MiCA & much more. You can watch Rebecca's talk at EthCC here. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. PSA: Ledn is looking to hire crypto-focused, financial-payments savvy lawyer as their Senior Counsel. You can learn more about the role here: https://jobs.lever.co/ledn. Tell them you heard about the job from the Law of Code podcast. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
11/1/202246 minutes, 3 seconds
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#68 - A Masterclass on Regulators w/ Blockchain Association's Marisa Coppel

Have you ever wondered about the history of the CFTC, SEC, or other regulatory agencies? In this episode, Marisa Coppel walks me through each America regulatory agency that impacts crypto - who they are, why they were created and what role they play in the crypto ecosystem. Marisa Tashman Coppel (@mtcoppel) is policy counsel at the Blockchain Association, where she helps develop and advocate for policy positions on behalf of the crypto industry as well as manages long-term legal projects and strategic litigation. She also writes a newsletter called Becoming Undefined, which focuses on themes of spirituality and self-discovery. Show highlights: [11:00] Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) [16:00] Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) [21:00] Department of Justice (DOJ) [25:00] Treasury Department & Sanctions [39:00] Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) & much more. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Ledn is looking to hire crypto-focused, financial-payments savvy lawyer as their Senior Counsel. You can learn more about the role here: https://jobs.lever.co/ledn. Tell them you heard about the job from the Law of Code podcast. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
10/26/20221 hour, 10 minutes, 24 seconds
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#67 - An Article on Legal Risks for DAOs

This episode outlines Pre-DAO and Post-DAO Legal Risk Assessment, an article written by Kevin Chen (@anothrkevinchen) in collaboration with the DAO Research Collective (@DAOResearchCo). Kevin is an attorney at Homiak Law LLC based in Denver, Colorado. He advises cryptoasset and blockchain technology companies on a wide variety of matters such as formation of new startup companies, venture financings, and securities law compliance. You can find the full article on the Law of Code substack, here. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
10/17/202235 minutes, 24 seconds
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#66 - Can't Be Evil NFT Licenses w/ drafters Miles Jennings, Mark Radcliffe and Ghaith Mahmood

The 'Can’t Be Evil' licenses are a set of six NFT licenses developed by lawyers and operators in web 3 - each license grants “different sets of rights with different degrees of permissiveness”. The licenses have been deployed on Arweave (a decentralized storage, similar to IPFS) and can be directly linked on-chain by smart contracts. The licenses are available on the a16z website (document containing the six licenses) or a16z's repository on Github. Miles Jennings and Chris Dixon published an introduction with background on the licenses that is also available on the a16z website. Miles Jennings (@milesjennings) is general counsel and head of decentralization at Andreessen Horowitz (a16z) crypto, where he advises the firm's portfolio companies and DAOs on decentralization and protocol design, oversees the firm's investments, and works on regulatory and policy matters. You can find Miles' conversation with Laura Shin here. Mark Radcliffe (@markfradcliffe) is senior partner at DLA Piper, where he assists companies in strategic intellectual property advice and venture financing. Mark has worked in Silicon Valley for 30+ years and has significant experience in applying the law to the issues raised by new technologies, such as open source software, blockchain, and domain names. In 1994, he assisted Network Solutions, Inc. in developing the first domain dispute resolution system - which is still the basis for the system in use today. The link to the recording of Mark's NFT webinar is here: Non-Fungible Tokens: Technology and Legal Overview | Events | DLA Piper Global Law Firm.  Ghaith Mahmood (@GhaithMahmoodLW) is a partner in the Los Angeles office of the law firm Latham & Watkins LLP, and a leader in the firm’s Digital Assets and Web3 practice group, and also of the firm’s Video Games and Esports group. Ghaith advises clients on all aspects of intellectual property and technology transactions, from developing, licensing, and commercializing IP assets, to advising on the IP aspects of strategic transactions.  In the blockchain space, he has particular expertise advising NFT projects of all shapes and sizes, from some of the biggest NFT platforms and marketplaces in the world, to individual NFT projects trying to figure out what rights and utility to grant to their NFT holders. Show highlights: [3:00] Why draft these licenses? [13:30] What projects should use these licenses [16:00] How NFT projects can incorporate the licenses [21:00] Lawful ownership [26:00] Terminating sublicenses [34:00] Notice [39:00] Hard forks [45:40] Fractionalizing & much more. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
10/12/20221 hour, 17 minutes, 15 seconds
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#65 - AML & Crypto with Compliance Expert Amber D. Scott

Amber D. Scott (@OutlierCanada) specializes in Canadian anti-money laundering (AML), counter terrorist financing (CTF), privacy, and regulatory compliance. In addition to being a Certified Anti-Money Laundering Specialist (CAMS) Amber is also a Certified Privacy Professional (CIPP). In 2013, she founded Outlier Solutions Inc. to provide anti-money laundering (AML) solutions to Canadian reporting entities. Show highlights: [1:55] Apple gift card story [6:50] Why work in AML and compliance [14:20] When projects should bring on compliance specialists [21:00] What is money laundering [22:10] Ozark [24:00] 3-5% of GDP is associated with money-laundering [35:00] Crypto & money laundering [42:40] History of money laundering [102:00] Project Participate & much more If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
10/3/20221 hour, 15 minutes, 6 seconds
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#64 - Worldpay & Web 3 with Head of Crypto Nabil Manji

Nabil Manji is the Senior VP, Head of Crypto & Emerging Business at Worldpay from FIS Global. Worldpay is the world’s largest payment processing company (and largest company you've never heard of). The company provides payment and technology services to merchants and financial institutions and processes approximately $2 trillion in volume annually.  In June 2019, Worldpay was acquired for $43 billion and merged into Fidelity National Information Services (FIS).  Nabil also represents Worldpay from FIS on the Governing Council of Hedera, Klaytn, and is a Partner/Advisor at Covalence Capital. Show highlights: [2:00] Genesis block [6:30] Conducting business internationally [9:40] What is Worldpay?  [10:30] Traditional payment processing [15:00] Worldpay & crypto companies [26:00] Speed of innovation in crypto [39:50] Working with legal & compliance & much more If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
9/26/20221 hour, 12 minutes
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#63 - NFTs and IP considerations with Olta Andoni

Olta Andoni (@AndoniOlta) is the Deputy General Counsel at Ava Labs, a company that helps launch decentralized finance applications on Avalanche. She was previously the Chief Legal Officer at Nifty’s, has lectured for Chicago-Kent, College of Law, and is a writer for Coindesk.  In this conversation, Olta and I discussion the new CryptoPunks license, the Yuga Labs v. Ryder Ripps case, and the importance of NFT IP licenses. Show hightlights: [7:00] CryptoPunks license [17:00] Commercial rights & $100K limits [24:00] Choosing which IP license to grant [28:00] Ryder Ripps case [36:00] Owl explains & much more. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
9/19/202242 minutes, 59 seconds
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#62 - Larry Florio on Delphia, evolving crypto law, and open source templates.

Larry Florio (@LarryFlorio) is General Counsel at Delphia Technologies Inc., one of the most innovative data-drive investment DAO projects in the world. Larry previously held senior counsel roles with several prominent blockchain-focused software developers. In this conversation, we cover business goals vs legal goals, the 80/20 principal, and how crypto law is developing. Show highlights: [1:20] Genesis block [4:00] TradFi [8:30] Privacy [11:00] Business mindset in a legal role [20:00] Get comfortable being uncomfortable [26:00] Delphia [36:00] How Larry starts each day [41:00] Life online [48:00] @thing3_xyz [54:00] Habits & advice & much more. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
9/12/202259 minutes, 19 seconds
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#61 - Tornado Cash Sanctions w/ DeFi Education Fund Director Miller Whitehouse-Levine

Miller Whitehouse-Levine (@millercwl) is the Policy Director at the DeFi Education Fund (@fund_defi). With oversight from the DeFi Education Fund’s grants committee, Miller has overall strategic and operational responsibility for the execution of the Education Fund’s mission and goals. Prior to joining the fund, Miller led the Blockchain Association’s policy operation and worked at Goldstein Policy Solutions on a range of public policy issues, including crypto.  In this conversation, we cover all aspects of the Tornado Cash saga, how the DeFi Education Fund works, and outline the interplay between the various government and international agencies governing crypto. Show highlights: [1:30] Genesis block [5:20] Lobbying and policy-making [14:30] DeFi 101 [24:00] DeFi Education Fund [28:00] Tornado Cash sanctions [43:15] Freedom of Information Act Request [52:30] Privacy & the surveillance state & much more.  If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
8/29/20221 hour, 3 minutes, 51 seconds
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#60 - Crypto Regulation in the EU w/ Patrick Hansen

Patrick Hansen (@paddi_hansen) serves as crypto venture advisor at Presight Capital, a global venture fund with +$600m AUM and 50+ startups in its portfolio. Patrick previously  worked as head of strategy & business development at crypto-wallet startup Unstoppable Finance and head of blockchain at Bitkom, Europe’s largest tech association, where he led crypto-related regulatory work, research, and partnerships. This conversation covers all things crypto regulation (EU, travel rule, stablecoins etc.) and what Patrick expects the landscape to look like in the future. We’ll also touch on best practices he’s seen in his research and what makes the EU a global leader in crypto regulation. Show highlights: [2:22] Genesis block [5:10] Building a presence on Twitter [10:00] MiCA & TFR in the EU [23:30] Principles of EU regulation & blockchain [28:04] Digital Euro [37:00] EU Stablecoins [43:50] Global coordination on regulation & much more. Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to the newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
8/26/202258 minutes, 49 seconds
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#59 - Marc Boiron on the playbook for Sufficient Decentralization

Marc Boiron (@boironattorney) is the Chief Legal Officer of the Polygon companies and a strategic advisor at Variant Fund, an early-stage fund investing in web3. He’s also a board member of the DeFi Education Fund. Marc recently published an excellent article, titled “Sufficient Decentralization: A playbook for Web3 builders and lawyers.”  In this episode, we dive deep into Marc's article to highlight how builders and lawyers should think about sufficient decentralization. We also touch on Marc’s journey and his thoughts on the current state of crypto regulation. Show highlights: [2:03] Marc's introduction to Bitcoin [9:27] Why decentralization is important [17:08] Best practices in decentralization [24:00] The critical point in Marc's paper [37:40] Airdrops & the Howey Test [42:00] Mutation doctrine [53:00] Tools for DAO communities & much more. Resources: Sufficient Decentralization: A Playbook for web3 Builders and Lawyers Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to the newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
8/23/20221 hour, 17 minutes, 16 seconds
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#58 - Yitzy Hammer & Samuel Goldfaden: The future of NFTs, whether securities laws should apply, and NFT NYC.

Yitzy Hammer and Samuel Goldfaden are co-founders of DLT Law and two crypto-focused lawyers based in Israel. Yitzy has been working with tech companies for the past 6 years on M&A, IP, privacy (CIPP/E certified), and corporate and commercial law-related legal issues. Samuel specializes in AML compliance and financial regulation.  Both Yitzy and Samuel worked for many years at Herzog, Fox & Neeman, Israel's largest law firm, including through the 2017 ICO craze. Recognizing a need for tailored services in the web3 space, they launched DLT Law, a unique practice where they work exclusively with crypto and blockchain-related products and services - NFT creators, DAOs, exchanges, and funds. In addition, they provide strategic consulting to web3 projects, drawing on their experience in the industry. Show highlights: [2:00] Genesis block [8:50] Choosing to start a crypto-law firm [10:50] Learnings from NFT NYC [15:15] Should securities laws apply to NFTs [19:20] The NFTs of the future [22:40] Revisiting Yuga Labs vs Ryder Ripps & much more. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
8/15/202234 minutes, 22 seconds
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#57 - Bill Richards & Gideon Esakoff on Crypto Litigation: How to avoid it, warning signs, and self-governance.

Bill Richards is an attorney and partner at Richards & Moskowitz PLC, a boutique Arizona firm serving the civil litigation needs of business, government and individuals. Through nearly three decades of trial practice, Bill has developed an expertise in successfully managing the most complex litigation matters. In private practice, he has represented global banking institutions, government bodies, judges, multibillion-dollar investment firms, as well as victims of consumer fraud and civil rights violations. When he is not advising clients, Bill is an adjunct professor for the Sandra Day O’Connor College of Law at Arizona State University, where he teaches trial advocacy. He is also an avid endurance runner.  Gideon Esakoff (@gid3xn) is an attorney at Richards & Moskowitz, where he represents businesses, government agencies and individuals. Gideon also studies the legal and social implications of emerging technologies including artificial intelligence and blockchain.  Show highlights: [4:00] Identifying warning signs [9:50] The automobile is analogous to crypto [16:00] Self-governing devs & the law society [25:00] Storytelling in the courtroom [30:50] Avoiding crypto litigation 101 [44:50] What commercial lawyers can learn from litigators [57:00] Being yourself [75:30] Importance of understanding the facts & much more. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
8/8/20221 hour, 29 minutes, 48 seconds
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#56 - Kelsie Nabben on DAO Research, Ethnography, and the History of Cryptography

Kelsie Nabben (@kelsiemvn) is a researcher of decentralized technology communities. As an ethnographic researcher, she is interested in the human outcomes of digital infrastructure, blockchain community culture, and algorithmic governance. Kelsie is also a recipient of a PhD scholarship at the RMIT University Centre of Excellence for Automated Decision-Making & Society, a Fellow at the DAO Research Collective, and a researcher in the Digital Ethnography Research Centre and Blockchain Innovation Hub. Show highlights: [1:51] Kelsie's introduction to Bitcoin [6:15] Ethnography & her current role [13:00] How to study a DAO [15:05] Decentralization [21:19] Autonomousness & Automation [30:22] Sovereignty and DAOs [43:00] Resilience and "Good Governance" [56:55] Habits & advice Show links & Kelsie's writing: Blockchain Security as “People Security”: Applying Sociotechnical Security to Blockchain Technology Towards a participatory digital ethnography of blockchain governance Steven Levy, Crypto: How the Code Rebels Beat the Government Saving Privacy in the Digital Age Aligning ‘Decentralized Autonomous Organization’ to Precedents in Cybernetics Imagining Human-Machine Futures: Blockchain-based 'Decentralized Autonomous Organizations' What is Resilience? Towards a model of resilience in decentralised socio-technical infrastructure DAO Vulnerabilities: A Multi-Scale DAO Ecosystem Mapping Tool Towards Computer-Aided Governance DAO Vulnerabilities: A Map of Lido Governance Risks & Opportunities kong.land/ ‘Crypto-States’ Will Compete With Corporates in the Metaverse A collection of Kelsie's writing
8/6/20221 hour, 2 minutes, 21 seconds
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#55 - Mike Wawszczak of Alliance DAO on DAOs & the Legal System

Mike Wawszczak (@dotwavsz) is General Counsel at @alliancedao and a valuable contributor to the DAO ecosystem. Mike has written extensive twitter threads and insightful articles on all things DAOs.  This conversation touches on the origins of Mt. Gox, philosophical issues with the current legal system, and the future of DAOs. Show highlights: [2:00] Magic the Gathering & Mt. Gox [7:00] Online Pseudonymity  [11:00] Law & Economics [17:00] Enforcing the Law [23:00] Advice & Habits If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
8/6/202226 minutes, 34 seconds
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#54 - John Deaton on Ripple, Decentralization, XRP and the SEC

John Deaton (@JohnEDeaton1) is the Managing Partner of the Deaton Law Firm, a law practice he founded in 2006. John is also the founder of Crypto-Law.us, a Bitcoin, ETH, XRP and crypto enthusiast, and an entrepreneur. A former Marine-turned-class-action lawyer, John became interested in crypto in 2016, and eventually invested in Ripple coin, XRP. When the SEC sued Ripple over allegations that XRP was an unregistered security, John raised concerns about the agency’s case, which he didn’t think was warranted, in a legal filing as a private citizen on his own behalf.  John filled me in on the entire saga so far, as well as what's on the horizon for XRP. Show highlights: [2:00] John's intro to crypto [8:00] Difference between XRP and Ripple [14:00] John explains the case for XRP being decentralized [22:00] Why John joined the Ripple vs SEC lawsuit [30:00] Why the SEC included XRP in the Ripple lawsuit [41:00] Where the XRP & Ripple case stands & much more.  If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
7/11/20221 hour, 7 minutes, 20 seconds
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#53 - Adam Sternbach: General Counsel at Fractional on NFTs & Legal Considerations

Adam Sternbach (@adamsternbach) is General Counsel at Fractional (@fractional_art), former Counsel to New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy (@GovMurphy) and a startup/VC attorney.  This wide-ranging episode covers the BAYC, owning a valuable NFT, working as general counsel, and much more. Show highlights: [1:37] Buying & owning a Bored Ape [11:20] Explaining NFTs [21:00] Counsel for Governor Murphy [27:00] General counsel role [36:00] NFT legal considerations [41:00] Staying on top of crypto law If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
7/4/20221 hour, 5 minutes, 20 seconds
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#52 - Peter Van Valkenburgh: Constitutional Challenges & Crypto Privacy

Peter Van Valkenburgh (@valkenburgh) is the director of research for Coin Center, the leading non-profit focused on the policy issues facing cryptocurrencies. He was previously the Google Policy Fellow for TechFreedom and is a graduate of NYU School of Law, as well as a self-taught designer and coder. In this episode, we discuss Peter's role at Coin Center, the U.S. Constitution & Crypto, and the SEC's definition of an exchange. Show highlights: [1:10] Genesis block [9:20] Writing  [13:50] Societal impact [18:00] Decentralization [24:00] Exchanges [29:10] Legal interpretations [34:00] Biden's Executive Order [42:00] Constitutional law [48:45] "Owning" Bitcoin [55:00] Interviewing Edward Snowden [58:30] Advice for recent grads [60:16] Seed oils Links: Peter's writing on Coin Center's website coincenter.org/people/peter-van-valkenburgh/ Seed oil blog: fireinabottle.net/ If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
6/27/20221 hour, 6 minutes, 38 seconds
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#51 - SEC Commissioner Hester Peirce answers the biggest questions in crypto law

Hester Peirce (@HesterPeirce) is a Commissioner at the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. She previously served as the director of the Financial Markets Working Group at George Mason University's Mercatus Center.  This episode covers almost every pressing issue in crypto law, as Commissioner Peirce shares her thoughts on stablecoin regulation, the future of the SEC, the fourth prong of Howey & much, much more.  Show highlights: [1:50] Stablecoin regulation [6:10] Regulatory philosophy [12:00] Safe harbor update [18:00] Information asymmetry vs code transparency [22:00] Smart contracts [24:00] Accredited investor exemptions [28:00] Sufficient decentralization & DAOs [34:00] Evolving tokens: from a security to non-security [36:20] NFTs & securities law [39:00] Bitcoin ETP [43:00] Crypto custody [47:00] Advice & habits Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
6/20/202250 minutes, 17 seconds
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#50 - Kristin Smith, Connor Spelliscy, Marina Markezic: Web3 Advocacy

This conversation covers the latest Gitcoin funding round, along with the work of three prominent public goods orgs: The Blockchain Association, The DAO Research Collective, and the EU Crypto Initiative.   Kristin Smith (@KMSmithDC) is the Executive Director at the Blockchain Association, where she leads the crypto industry’s development of a strategic roadmap for public policy.  Connor Spelliscy (@c_spelliscy) runs the DAO Research Collective, which accelerates DAO functionality by procuring and open sourcing targeted research foundational to effective DAO operation.  Marina Markezic (@MarinaMarkezic) is co-founder of the EU Crypto Initiative, alongside Florian Glatz and Simon Polrot, which aims to shape EU regulation to favor open, permissionless, decentralized applications leveraging blockchain technology.  Gitcoin’s Grants Round 14 is almost upon us, and with it #ReFiSummer will be officially here. The event is kicking off on June 8th and running through June 23rd, 2022. Gitcoin is where the world’s leading web3 projects are born, validated & funded. This includes @Uniswap, @poapxyz & @BanklessHQ. Gitcoin has distributed over $60 million in total, including $40 million through grants alone. In just 3 years, they’ve helped provide funding for over 2500 grants from tens of thousands of unique contributors across 2 million+ contributions.  Show highlights:   [1:50] Importance of Web3 Advocacy  [7:00] The Blockchain Association, the DRC, and the EU Crypto Initiative  [13:00] Gitcoin Advocacy Round [25:00] Educating Regulators  [33:00] Importance of EU Policy  [42:00] Habits & Advice.  Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.  Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
6/13/202251 minutes, 40 seconds
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#49 - Jordan Teague: DAO Structuring & Legal Engineering

Jordan Teague (@jordanteague) is an attorney and smart contract developer. In her crypto-native law practice, The Antifirm, she focuses on governance, regulatory, and other legal issues facing web3 organizations. Jordan is one of the core developers behind KaliDAO and a legal engineer with LexDAO. In this episode, we discuss all things DAOs - legislation, potential, and legal structuring, as well as Jordan's journey into legal engineering, and what the future legal system looks like. Show highlights: [1:22] Genesis Block [12:50] KaliDAO & Series LLC [20:00] The Antifirm [30:20] Ricardian Contracts [44:00] Projects [49:00] Habits & Life Advice Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
6/13/202253 minutes, 39 seconds
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#48 - Michael Mosier: FinCEN & Privacy with Digital Assets

Michael Mosier (@M_Mosier) is the General Counsel at ESPRESSO Systems, a scaling & privacy solution for Web3 applications. Michael was formerly the first in-house Counsel at cryptocurrency analytics and investigations firm Chainalysis. Michael was previously Acting Director, as well as permanent Deputy Director & Digital Innovation Officer of the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN), a bureau of the Treasury Department. As Acting Director, he oversaw FinCEN’s wide-ranging work to promote financial integrity and national security. As Digital Innovation Officer, he was dedicated to advancing FinCEN’s engagement with emerging technology and financial innovation. Previously, Michael served as Associate Director at Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC). Before joining Treasury, Michael was Deputy Chief in the Department of Justice’s Money Laundering & Asset Recovery Section. He also served a tour at the White House National Security Council as Director for Transnational Organized Crime. In this episode, we discuss his career in public service, what FinCEN is and why it's important, and what the future of privacy looks like in America. Show highlights: [1:50] Genesis Block [7:00] FinCEN [14:00] Money Laundering & Crypto [23:00] Privacy [29:00] Espresso Systems [35:00] General Counsel Role [44:00] Habits & Life Advice Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
5/30/202247 minutes, 55 seconds
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#47 - Who holds stolen NFT IP: Seth Green's Case (+ Jarkesy v. SEC)

This episode reviews the IP ownership rights associated with Board Ape #8398, after actor and producer Seth Green (who licensed it for his series, White Horse Tavern) was scammed in a phishing attack. The stolen NFT was then sold to "DarkWing84" for $200,000. This episode is largely based on an enlightening thread by James Grimmelmann (@grimmelm), who dove deep into the issue, with additional notes from prominent crypto lawyers Drew Hinkes (@propelforward), Jake Chervinsky (@jchervinsky), Preston Byrne (@prestonjbyrne), and others. We also cover the recent decision in Jarkesy v. SEC, in which the Fifth Circuit essentially stated that the SEC must go through Federal courts in fraud cases. The implications may be greater than that, and this will be an important case impacting the future of the SEC.  Other updates include a decision from Hermès International, et al. v Mason Rothschild, an update from LUNA, LexDAO's latest guidance on metaverse lawyering, and more. Much credit for this episode goes to the incredible sources, including James Grimmelmann (@grimmelm), the CryptoLaw Newsletter (@cryptolaw_news), and a newsletter by two bright law students, Around the Blockchain - which covers everything happening within the crypto law space, every single week. You can find their newsletter on Substack, Around the Blockchain. Disclaimer: Jacob Robinson and his guests are not your lawyer. Nothing herein or mentioned on the Law of Code podcast should be construed as legal advice. The material published is intended for informational, educational, and entertainment purposes only. Please seek the advice of counsel, and do not apply any of the generalized material to your individual facts or circumstances without speaking to an attorney.
5/26/202235 minutes, 50 seconds
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#46 - J.W. Verret: Securities Laws and the future of Crypto

Professor J.W. Verret (@JWVerret), teaches accounting and finance, securities law, M&A, corporate law and banking law at the George Mason University Law School. A Senior Advisor @messaricrypto, J.W. is a licensed CPA in the state of Virginia, is licensed in financial forensics by the AICPA, is a Certified Fraud Examiner and a Certified Valuation Analyst.  He has been a Visiting Professor at Stanford Law School. J.W. served on the Investor Advisory Committee of the Securities and Exchange Commission, where he advised the SEC on matters of investor protection.  He serves on the Financial Accounting Standards Advisory Committee, which advises on the development of Generally Accepted Accounting Standards (GAAP).  He also serves as faculty liaison to the American College of Business Court Judges.  He previously worked as the Chief Economist at the U.S. House Financial Services Committee. J.W. holds a Bachelors degree in Financial Accounting, a Masters in Economic Policy from the Harvard Kennedy School of Government, and a J.D. from Harvard Law School. In this wide-ranging conversation, we discuss J.W.'s work as an advisor at the SEC, his new position at Messari, the future of disclosure, securities laws, and much more. Show highlights: [3:00] J.W.'s introduction to Bitcoin [9:40] Story behind his twitter header [16:30] Learning quickly [22:00] Senior Advisor at Messari [27:00] Understanding Gary Gensler [34:43] Reg X Proposal by LeXPunK [40:00] Crypto regulation [45:00] Expanding the Howey test [51:00] Pillars of securities law [59:00] Crypto as the modern printing press [66:00] Decentralization Disclosure [72:00] DAOs [76:00] Habits & career advice If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.
5/23/20221 hour, 26 minutes, 26 seconds
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#45 - Marco Santori: Pioneering Crypto Law, Convincing Regulators, and building Kraken.

Marco Santori (@msantoriESQ) is the Chief Legal Officer of Kraken Digital Asset Exchange. Known as the "Dean of Digital Currency Lawyers," Marco is a recognized authority in the law and policy of blockchain technologies. Prior to his move to Kraken, Marco was the Chief Legal Officer of Blockchain.com, as well as a Partner at both Cooley LLP and Pillsbury Winthrop, where he counseled banks, broker-dealers, exchanges, digital wallets, payment providers, and other companies making new and exciting uses of distributed ledger technology. Marco is an author of the SAFT Project Whitepaper, a self-regulatory effort to curb Initial Coin Offerings. He is an advisor to the International Monetary Fund, the Blockchain Ambassador to the State of Delaware, and was the Chairman of the Regulatory Affairs Committee of the Bitcoin Foundation. He has been quoted by the Congressional Research Service, Bloomberg, the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Coindesk, Washington Post, The New Yorker, Wired, Entrepreneur.com and Crain's New York Business. In this interview, Marco shares his journey from litigator to crypto lawyer, the importance & downside of big law, and the future of NFTs & DAOs with respect to the fourth prong of the Howey test. Show highlights: [2:15] Marco's introduction to crypto (& subsequent rug pull) [11:35] Making great decisions [18:40] Marco's journey to Kraken [21:13] Building in crypto law [26:40] Environmental misconceptions [34:20] Building a crypto bank: Bank Charter Application [39:10] Convincing regulators with examples [44:00] DAOs & the "efforts of others" [53:11] Stoicism  Links: Marco's website marcosantori.com Daily stoic newsletter If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.
5/19/202258 minutes, 42 seconds
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#44 - UST & LUNA: What happened & what comes next

The Collapse of UST and LUNA - This was the most eventful week in many months, but, unfortunately, the end result was that $500 billion was wiped off the total cryptocurrency market cap. A calculated attack on UST triggered Terra's LUNA to crash more than 99% over the past few days. This caused a corresponding fall and de-pegging in the price of UST, Terra's algorithmic, decentralized stablecoin. This episode offers a deep dive into the events behind the $500 billion+ loss of value in the crypto space, as well as insight into how UST & Luna worked. We also cover the most recent updates in the crypto law space, including an NFT ruling from the UK and a DAO lawsuit in California. This episode pulled insights from the CryptoLaw Newsletter, Jake Chervinsky, Wassie Lawyer, @OnChainWizard, @ItsAlwaysZonny, and @tatianakoffman. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review or letting me know (@JacobRobinsonJD). You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Thanks to our sponsor - Hedera Hashgraph (@Hedera). Hedera is the most used, sustainable, enterprise-grade public network for the decentralized economy. They are looking to add bright legal minds to their team. You can review the available openings at hedera.com/future. When you apply, be sure to mention you heard about it on the Law of Code podcast!
5/16/202234 minutes, 36 seconds
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#43 - Jesse Pollak: Building Web3 at Coinbase & beyond

Jesse Pollak (@jessepollak) currently works on protocols, public goods, cities, and currencies at Coinbase & beyond (more coming soon). He previously led all Retail engineering at Coinbase, including building Coinbase, Coinbase Pro, and Coinbase Wallet. Way back when, Jesse started Clef and was an engineer at BuzzFeed. He also writes open source software and takes incredible photos. You can find Jesse at jesse.xyz on ETH and on Twitter, Github, & LinkedIn. In this episode, we discuss building at Coinbase, Jesse's introduction to Bitcoin during a conversation with Olaf Carlson-Wee (Polychain Capital CEO), his project to bring crypto awareness and knowledge to the city of Oakland, and much more. Show highlights: [1:30] A conversation with Olaf Carlson-Wee [8:00] Cultivating coding skills [19:30] Minting a CryptoPunk [24:00] Online Pseudonymity [32:00] Software-enabled corporations & the future of DAOs [39:00] Perspective shifts in Web3 [42:00] Building @ Coinbase [48:00] Oakland Community Currency [54:00] Focus and discipline in Web 3 If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Thanks to our sponsor - Hedera Hashgraph (@Hedera). Hedera is the most used, sustainable, enterprise-grade public network for the decentralized economy. They are looking to add bright legal minds to their team. You can review the available openings at hedera.com/future. When you apply, be sure to mention you heard about it here on the Law of Code podcast!
5/9/20221 hour, 9 minutes, 20 seconds
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#42 - Laura Shin: Investigating Ethereum, interviewing Vitalik, and balancing truth & consequences.

Laura Shin (@laurashin) is a crypto journalist, host of the Unchained podcast, and author of “The Cryptopians: Idealism, Greed, Lies, and the Making of the First Big Cryptocurrency Craze” (PublicAffairs, 2022). During the course of writing her book, she and her sources uncovered who they believe was behind the biggest whodunnit in crypto — the 2016 DAO attack on Ethereum. Formerly a senior editor at Forbes, she was the first mainstream journalist to cover crypto full-time, and her podcasts and videos have had more than 19 million downloads and views. Shin has spoken about cryptocurrency at places such as TEDx San Francisco, the International Monetary Fund, Singularity University and the Oslo Freedom Forum. In this interview, Laura shares her original intention behind writing The Cryptopians, interviewing Vitalik, and her favourite moments from the book! Show highlights: [2:30] Laura's first piece of journalism [6:00] Full-time Bitcoin reporting [11:00] Staying updated on crypto [14:00] Laura's favourite moment writing The Cryptopians [17:00] Self-care in crypto [23:00] The importance of writing [25:30] First week writing The Cryptopians [33:30] Interviewing Vitalik [39:00] Difficult moments [48:00] Remaining neutral while reporting [56:00] What was left out of The Cryptopians [57:00] Truth vs Consequences  [63:00] Legal side of crypto [68:30] Other professions Laura considered [73:40] Blind spots [79:00] Religion & Crypto [85:00] Doing what you love Links: Laura's Book: The Cryptopians Laura's Newsletter: Unchained Laura's Podcast Channel If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes. Thanks to our (first-ever) sponsor - Hedera Hashgraph (@Hedera). Hedera is the most used, sustainable, enterprise-grade public network for the decentralized economy. They are looking to add bright legal minds to their team. You can review the available openings at hedera.com/future. When you apply, be sure to mention you heard about it here on the Law of Code podcast!
5/6/20221 hour, 26 minutes, 21 seconds
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#41 - Ben Samaroo: CEO of WonderFi on building, managing risk, and making decisions

Ben Samaroo (@BenSamaroo) is CEO/Co-Founder at WonderFi Technologies Inc, one of the largest players in the Canadian crypto space. Ben began building WonderFi with the mission of lowering barriers to entry to crypto and decentralized finance in support of a more equitable financial system.  Previously, Ben was an executive and regulatory consultant with broad experience in managing corporate finance, risk and compliance on behalf of Fintech companies. He previously served as Regulatory Consultant and Advisor at Netcoins, General Counsel and Chief Compliance Officer for First Coin Capital, a Vancouver-based company that was acquired by Galaxy Digital. Prior, he was a lawyer at Osler, Hoskin & Harcourt LLP, where advised public and private companies on M&A and capital raises.  In this episode, we discuss DeFi, taking risks, and building one of Canada's largest crypto companies. Show highlights: [2:50] Ben's Genesis Block [9:30] WonderFi [12:35] Best Decisions [16:00] Taking Risks [25:13] Playing Offense in Business and Life [32:00] WonderFi's Foundation & Acquisitions [38:44] Legal Experience - Asset or Burden? [49:24] Flair Airlines [52:00] Habits [56:10] Great Lawyers If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.
5/2/202256 minutes, 29 seconds
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#40 - Uniswap Class Action, LeXPunK Proposal & Much More (April 28)

(April 28) This episode is an overview of the legal landscape for digital assets, outlining the implications, pertinent news, and updates in the crypto law space from the past week. It is a collaboration between the Law of Code Podcast and the CryptoLaw Newsletter, by Ann Sofie Cloots. This will be a weekly installment to ensure you're up to date on the regulations impacting digital assets. This "solo-pod" is an attempt to add value to the space by highlighting ongoing blockchain regulation across the world - with a focus on the legal implications. It's a work in progress and can only get better. I appreciate any feedback on this format - please send your thoughts to @JacobRobinsonJD. If you have suggestions for topics for future solo-pods, I'd love to hear that as well. Now go subscribe to the CryptoLaw Newsletter (@cryptolaw_news)!
4/28/202228 minutes, 59 seconds
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#39 - Stepan Simkin: Building for DAOs (after a Legal Career)

Stepan Simkin (@SimkinStepan) is the co-founder and CEO of Squads (https://squads.so/) and a former attorney at the international law firm Clifford Chance LLP.  Squads raised millions to build DAO tooling for the Solana ecosystem. Squads' goal is to simplify the DAO framework and make it accessible to the majority of users who are familiar with web3 or are just discovering it. By combining the core DAO primitives under one platform and building it on a fast and scalable layer 1 blockchain like Solana, they hope that Squads will become a social hub for web3 coordination. Their focus is on a clean and simplified UI/UX combined with scalability and predictable fees to democratize the DAO framework. In this episode, we cover Stepan's transition from lawyer to CEO, solving problems DAOs face, buying NFTs and Squads.  If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.
4/25/202252 minutes, 51 seconds
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#38 - Miles Jennings: Decentralization, Web3 & a16z

Miles Jennings (@milesjennings) is the general counsel of a16z crypto, where he oversees the firm's investments, works on regulatory and policy matters, and works with the firm's portfolio companies and DAOs on decentralized operations, protocol design and regulatory matters.  Miles was previously a partner at Latham & Watkins in its capital markets and emerging companies group, and co-chaired its global blockchain and cryptocurrency task force, which was composed of over 80 lawyers around the globe. In that role, Miles acted as lead counsel for nearly every large investor in the sector, including a16z, Paradigm, Pantera, ParaFi, Ribbit, Coatue and others. In addition, he was a go-to, trusted advisor for countless startups and crypto projects, including ConsenSys, Uniswap, Aave, Bitwise, Avalanche, Element, Idle, Connext, 3Box, and Aztec.  Miles has written extensively on legal frameworks for digital assets and decentralized autonomous organizations (DAOs), and on the design of decentralized systems. He previously co-authored “A Legal Framework for Decentralized Autonomous Organizations” with David Kerr.  In this episode, we discuss his recently published “Principles & Models of Web3 Decentralization” paper. You find a summarized version of the paper here.  Show highlights  [5:08] Legal work in crypto  [7:52] SAFTs & issues around them  [10:45] Why he wrote a paper on decentralization  [14:00] Surprising insights while writing about decentralization  [20:20] Goal of writing on decentralization  [29:00] Howey: efforts of others & DAOs - best practices  [37:50] Conflict of interest for a16z  [48:20] VCs as legal clients  [58:00] Information asymmetry  [69:50] Writing strategies  If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.
4/22/20221 hour, 9 minutes, 30 seconds
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#37 - This Week in Crypto Law (April 14)

(April 8-14) This episode is an overview of the legal landscape for digital assets, outlining the implications, pertinent news, and updates in the crypto law space from the past week. It is a collaboration between the Law of Code Podcast and the CryptoLaw Newsletter, by Ann Sofie Cloots. This will be a weekly installment to ensure you're up to date on the regulations impacting digital assets. This "solo-pod" is an attempt to add value to the space by highlighting ongoing blockchain regulation across the world - with a focus on the legal implications. It's a work in progress and can only get better. I appreciate any feedback on this format - please send your thoughts to @JacobRobinsonJD. If you have suggestions for topics for future solo-pods, I'd love to hear that as well. Now go subscribe to the CryptoLaw Newsletter!
4/14/20227 minutes, 58 seconds
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#36 - This Week in Crypto Law (April 7)

(April 1-7) This episode is an overview of the legal landscape for digital assets, outlining the implications, pertinent news, and updates in the crypto law space from the past week. It is a collaboration between the Law of Code Podcast and the CryptoLaw Newsletter, by Ann Sofie Cloots. This will be a weekly installment to ensure you're up to date on the regulations impacting digital assets. This "solo-pod" is an attempt to add value to the space by highlighting ongoing blockchain regulation across the world - with a focus on the legal implications. It's a work in progress and can only get better. I appreciate any feedback on this format - please send your thoughts to @JacobRobinsonJD. If you have suggestions for topics for future solo-pods, I'd love to hear that as well. Now go subscribe to the CryptoLaw Newsletter!
4/7/202210 minutes, 46 seconds
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#35 - Lana Schwartzman: Chief Compliance Officer at Dapper Labs

Lana Schwartzman (@LanaCryptoAML) is the Chief Compliance Officer at Dapper Labs, the team behind NBA Top Shots, NFL All Day, and Cryptokitties. Lana has more than 17 years of experience specializing in compliance, cryptocurrency regulations, and AML. Specifically, in BSA/AML/OFAC program development, MSB/MTL licensure process, internal audits, independent compliance program reviews, and consent order validation for various cryptocurrency exchange companies, financial institutions, and foreign banking organizations. Prior to joining Dapper Labs, she spent close to 3 years as a Chief Compliance Officer at a regulated P2P marketplace, and previously spent 7 years at Grant Thornton LLP in the Regulatory Risk Group specializing in BSA/AML and OFAC regulations. Lana spent her early years at Morgan Stanley and Deutsche Bank in various compliance roles. Lana is known as a subject matter expert in Regulations and Compliance related to cryptocurrency and she stays current on all AML regulations. Lana is a Certified Anti-Money Laundering Specialist (CAMS) and obtained the ACAMS Virtual Currency Certification and various Chainalysis certifications. She achieved the recognition of "AML Professional of the Month" in 2019 and has been a frequent panelist at various ACAMS, ACFCS, and Bitcoin conferences. You can also find Lana on LinkedIn. In this episode of Law of Code, Lana explains what a chief compliance officer does, building a compliance program, and why a compliance officer isn't the "fun police." We also discuss: - Mining Bitcoin - Dapper Labs - Where compliance officers add value - Learning more about compliance regulation - Surprising aspects of a compliance role - Changing sentiment of regulators - Promoting inclusion and diversity If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.
4/6/202250 minutes, 45 seconds
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#34 - David Kerr: The UNA framework for DAOs

David Kerr (@David_M_Kerr) is the Principal of Cowrie LLC, where he uses ten years of experience in tax strategy, financial accounting, and risk advisory in the industries of gaming, telecommunications, and technology-driven online sales platforms to assist clients. David co-authored "A Legal Framework for Decentralization Autonomous Organizations" together with Miles Jennings. This paper identified a number of taxation, entity formation, and operational issues pertaining to DAOs and suggested a domestic entity structure capable of addressing such issues. In this episode of Law of Code, David shares his views on today's DAOs, writing techniques, settling on the UUNAA framework, and all things taxes.  [1:36] DAOs [8:00] Proving decentralization [16:30] Decentralization as a demonstrable principle [19:00] DAOs & Taxes [21:00] Section 61 & Glenshaw Glass: Dominion and Control [28:30] Income events for token holders [32:00] Writing concisely and the DAO Research Collective [46:00] David’s intro to crypto & consulting background [55:58] Tips for great writing and conducting research across jurisdictions [60:09] Building a career If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review. You can subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated on the latest episodes.
4/1/20221 hour, 11 minutes, 27 seconds
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#33 - This Week in Crypto Law

(March 24-31) This episode is an overview of the legal landscape for digital assets, outlining the implications, pertinent news, and updates in the crypto law space from the past week. It is a collaboration between the Law of Code Podcast and the CryptoLaw Newsletter, by Ann Sofie Cloots. This will be a weekly installment to ensure you're up to date on the regulations impacting digital assets. This "solo-pod" is an attempt to add value to the space by highlighting ongoing blockchain regulation across the world - with a focus on the legal implications. It's a work in progress and can only get better. I appreciate any feedback on this format - please send your thoughts to @JacobRobinsonJD. If you have suggestions for topics for future solo-pods, I'd love to hear that as well. Now go subscribe to the CryptoLaw Newsletter!
3/31/202213 minutes, 39 seconds
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#32 - This Week in Crypto Law

This episode is an overview of the legal landscape for digital assets, outlining the implications, pertinent news, and updates in the crypto law space from the past week. It is a collaboration between the Law of Code Podcast and the CryptoLaw Newsletter, by Ann Sofie Cloots. Moving forward, this will be a weekly installment to ensure you're up to date on the regulations impacting digital assets. This "solo-pod" is an attempt to add value to the space by highlighting ongoing blockchain regulation across the world - with a focus on the legal implications. It's a work in progress and can only get better. I appreciate any feedback on this format - please send your thoughts to @JacobRobinsonJD. If you have suggestions for topics of future solo-pods, I'd love to hear that as well! Now go subscribe to the CryptoLaw Newsletter.
3/24/202212 minutes, 38 seconds
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#31 - Biden's Executive Order on Digital Assets

Last week, the @WhiteHouse released its long-anticipated Executive Order on cryptocurrencies, marking the first time this administration explicitly highlighted the need to preserve innovation and competitiveness in the US. This Executive Order lays out a process for multiple agencies to write a framework around digital assets. This episode is an overview of the Executive Order, outlining the implications, pertinent sections, and reactions from thought leaders in the cryptolaw space.  Here are links where you can read the full Executive Order and Fact-Sheet. Jake Chervinsky's (@jchervinsky) article on stablecoins. Highly recommend following Ryan Selkis (@twobitidiot), Congressman Tom Emmer (@RepTomEmmer) and Jerry Brito (@jerrybrito), whose insightful comments were mentioned throughout this episode. This "solo-pod" is my attempt to add value to the space by highlighting ongoing blockchain regulation across the world - with a focus on the legal implications. It's a work in progress and can only get better (right??). Would appreciate any feedback on this format @JacobRobinsonJD or by leaving a review. If you have suggestions for topics of future solo-pods, I'd love to hear that as well!
3/21/202227 minutes, 58 seconds
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#30 - Ross Campbell: Legal Engineering and Kali DAO

Ross Campbell (@r_ross_campbell) is a legal engineer and core developer for SushiSwap, LexDAO, and KaliDAO, in addition to being a corporate attorney. In this episode of Law of Code, Ross speaks from his ETH Denver hotel room on legal engineering with the Lex and Kali DAOs, how projects can work with both, and the impact of decentralization on nations. Listen and subscribe to Law of Code for weekly updates and interviews in the world of blockchain at the intersection of the law. [2:14] Ross catches us up on current projects and how Soulmate is creating a library of smart contracts [5:43] Saving gas and testnets [8:00] Difference between Testnets and EVM (& forking mainnet) [9:14] Gas fees [11:40] ETH Denver [14:54] Will developers rug pull lawyers? [25:30] What to consider when forming a DAO [29:38] Kali DAO: What it is, how it works, etc. [40:00] Ross' productivity hacks [46:11] Reframing ‘thinking like a lawyer' [48:44] Accredited investor laws [52:01] Individualism [55:36] Nation-states vs decentralization [60:00] Social safety nets & DAOs [68:20] Mistakes often made when starting down the path of a legal engineer [73:00] $ROSS token Show Notes: - Marty Lobdell - Study Less Study Smart - Cyberspace and the Law of the Horse - LexDAO - Kali DAO
3/17/20221 hour, 16 minutes, 31 seconds
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#29 - Bennett Tomlin: The Tether & Bitfinex Connection

Bennett Tomlin (@BennettTomlin) is the co-host of the podcast Crypto Critics’ Corner, where he breaks down current events in crypto & finance. He is a data scientist who loves to analyze and track down frauds. Bennett also writes a newsletter, the Facts Under Dispute (FUD) Letter, which takes a deep dive into the darkest corners of crypto on a monthly basis. Bennett is a vocal & endearing critic of DeFi, and offers unique and refreshing insight while keeping a close eye on the largest players in the space. In this episode of Law of Code, Bennett and Jacob discuss the evolution of stablecoins, the relationship between Bitfinex & Tether, and what the future holds for Bitcoin. We also cover: [1:16] Bennett's Introduction to Bitcoin [5:05] Crypto Critic's Corner [10:45] Conducting Crypto Research [17:00] Danger of Centralized Actors  [19:10] The Story of Bitfinex & Tether [32:30] Government Regulation of Stablecoins [39:33] Consensus, Decentralization & Bitcoin Hard Forks [45:50] Projects Bennett is Watching  [50:10] Best Advice: "It's better to ask a dumb question, than to fail to ask it and be dumb"  Listen and subscribe to Law of Code for weekly updates and interviews on the intersection of blockchain and the law.
3/2/202257 minutes, 34 seconds
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#28 - Stephen Palley: Crypto regulation, building a team, and defining decentralization

Stephen D. Palley (@stephendpalley) is a Partner in the Washington, D.C office of Anderson Kill, where he chairs the Technology, Media & Distributed Systems practice group. Stephen has written extensively and been quoted widely on legal issues arising from the use of blockchain technology, with appearances in both print and television media. He is also an editor of the International Journal of Blockchain Law (IJBL), a law journal helping non-legal communities better understand blockchain applications and digital assets. In this episode, Stephen discusses his path into the crypto space, gives insight into building a crypto-law dream team, and the truth behind his love for two spaces after each period. Listen and subscribe to Law of Code for weekly updates and interviews on the intersection of blockchain and the law. Episode highlights: [1:10] The Car Game [4:45] Choosing Law School over an English PhD [9:00] How a legal career is different than what Stephen expected [11:55} From Construction and Insurance Law to Crypto [16:50] Impasse Breaker [20:30] Advantages in a legal career from a programming background [23:26] Software Development and Engineering: Licenses? [28:56] Chair Gensler [31:00] Regulatory oversight & what is "decentralization" legally [36:40] Writing for The Block and cases covering decentralization [38:00] Working with anonymous clients? [40:45] The two words why Stephen joined Anderson Kill [53:00] What do young lawyers spend too much time on [56:00] Valuable habits Stephen has developed over the years [58:00] Two spaces after a period, fonts, Google Docs, Twitter & Herring. Of course.  Links:  The Block - Stephen D. Palley 
2/25/20221 hour, 2 minutes, 29 seconds
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#27 - Nelson Rosario: The Intersection of Intellectual Property & NFTs

Nelson Rosario (@NelsonMRosario) is the founder of Rosario Tech Law, a boutique law firm in Illinois focused on companies building the new economy on top of blockchain. Nelson’s widely respected commentary and analysis have been featured in the New York Times, TechCrunch and CoinDesk. In this episode of Law of Code, Nelson and Jacob discuss IP and copyright, SpiceDAO, and what the future holds for NFTs. [1:57] What sold Nelson on blockchain [11:35] Why IP law is so important [14:40] NFT & IP concerns people are overlooking [18:00] Spice DAO [25:40] The future of copyright in a digital world [32:15] Benefits of open-source IP  [38:43] Answering novel legal questions [43:27] Starting Rosario Tech Law [49:42] Nelson’s love for Chicago [53:46] What habits make a great lawyer?
2/18/202253 minutes, 48 seconds
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#26 - Preston Byrne: The legal differences between Ethereum's ICO & Bitcoin, DAO trends, and building a crypto-law practice.

Preston Byrne (@prestonjbyrne) is a partner at Anderson Kill, where his practice is focused on early-stage high-tech companies, particularly regarding corporate transactions, IP, and other cross-border legal issues. He was previously a co-founder of Monax, the first permissioned blockchain, in 2014.  In this episode, Preston gives a history of his involvement in blockchain, looks at the evolution of DAOs, and gives his perspective on running a crypto practice. He also explains landing his first client on the day he was called to the bar. Listen and subscribe to Law of Code for weekly updates and interviews in the world of blockchain at the intersection of the law.  Show highlights:  [02:10] Preston's introduction to Bitcoin  [13:17] The mutation doctrine: Bitcoin and Ethereum.  [19:43] Important things to keep in mind when building a crypto-law practice  [24:07] Current DAO trends  [34:57] NFTs, crypto, and the broader market  [39:51] Best practices for interacting with crypto clients  [44:32] Why return to the USA after law school in England?  [50:58] Why Preston joined Anderson Kill  [52:45] “The Back of the Envelope”  [56:07] Exposure to cities as a category of risk  [1:00:47] Remote-first lawyers  [1:01:49] How has Preston’s reading shaped his views?  [1:08:52] What advice shaped Preston's career?  [1:11:29] What habits should lawyers establish early on?  Resources:  Applied Cryptography: Protocols, Algorithms and Source Code in C  Sane Society by Erich Fromm  Preston's site: https://prestonbyrne.com/ 
2/14/20221 hour, 6 minutes, 30 seconds
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#25 - Lewis Cohen: A Masterclass on Securities, Currencies, and Building a Legal Career.

Lewis Cohen (@NYCryptoLawyer) is a co-founder of DLx Law, where his practice is focused on the use of blockchain and tokenization across capital markets. As a former global top 50 partner with 20 years of experience, Lewis is a frequent speaker on blockchain and is recognized by Chambers Global across legal, blockchain, and cryptocurrencies in the U.S. In this episode, Lewis discusses creating a law firm in the crypto space, gives a master class on securities and commodities, and discusses the role of bridging blockchain and real-world assets. Listen and subscribe to Law of Code for weekly updates and interviews in the world of blockchain at the intersection of the law. [00:00] Meet Lewis Cohen [01:44] Book recommendations [06:09] What got Lewis interested in blockchain? [07:59] DLx Law [11:11] DLx Coin 👀 [16:45] Crypto regulation [20:58] The role of on and off-ramps & KYC [23:59] What is a security, really [35:39] DAOs [39:01] What DAO would Lewis like to join? [42:23] What role might co-op statutes, regulation, and labor union treasuries play? [50:01] The Wyoming DAO statute [52:34] Bridging the gap between real-world and on-chain [55:43] What does Lewis think about stablecoins? [1:04:16] Building your knowledge and credibility in crypto [1:09:18] Lewis’ system for keeping on top of changes [1:11:41 With the constant change and iteration in crypto, what has surprised Lewis in recent years? [1:17:24] What advice did Lewis receive early on which shaped his career? Links: DeFi: A Pathway Forward by Alexander Lipton and Lewis Cohen Books: The Starfish and the Spider by Rod Beckstrom and Ori Brafman  The Sovereign Individual by James Dale Davidson The Marshall Plan by Benn Steil Collected works of Sherlock Holmes, Arthur Conan Doyle
2/4/20221 hour, 21 minutes, 48 seconds
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#24 - Lori Stein: The world’s first publicly traded Bitcoin investment fund, DAOs, and Canadian crypto regulation.

Lori Stein is Co-Head of the Digital Assets and Blockchain practice at Osler, Hoskin, & Harcourt LLP, and a Partner in their Corporate Department. Lori is one of the top attorneys in Canadian FinTech & Securities, playing a major role in the development of crypto investment regulations. With clients such as 3iQ Corp., Lori had an integral role in establishing the first publicly traded Bitcoin & Ethereum investment funds in the world. Lori regularly advises Canadian companies on blockchain and cryptocurrency law, and has been widely published and quoted in the media for her expertise in this space.   Show highlights:  - The path to convincing the Ontario Securities Commission (OSC) to allow the world's first publicly traded crypto investment fund  - How Lori prepared for her arguments to the OSC and best practices when navigating new areas of law  "At one point, the idea of a gold or silver ETF was completely novel" - What regulators can do to capitalize on the potential of crypto, while protecting consumers  - Comparing the burden of proof in Canada vs the United States - DAOs: Suitable approaches to legal recognition, applying the Howey test, and what the future holds  - NFTs & securities regulation - Working with clients: first conversations and asking questions  - Law of Code NFT?  - Mentorship & much more.
1/24/20221 hour, 29 minutes, 6 seconds
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#23 - Addison Cameron-Huff: Working with Ethereum co-founders, saying no, and everything you should know about building a law firm of one.

Addison Cameron-Huff (@aCameronhuff) has been practicing in the blockchain space since 2014. Addison has managed a blockchain wallet company, built dev teams, provided legal advice to founders of Ethereum, taught at the University of Toronto Faculty of Law, and was one of the first Canadian lawyers to work in blockchain. Show highlights: [3:15] - Why he received a call from a co-founder of Ethereum in 2014 [4:42] - Starting a crypto-law firm: What the first few months looked like [7:35] - Building momentum for your legal practice (including what not to do) and the importance of writing long-form articles [10:55] - Imposter syndrome in the legal industry [13:12] - When/How to say “I don’t know” when given a request you are unsure how to address [16:45] - How to stay abreast of fast-moving crypto developments (as well as the slower-moving legal side) [17:55] - The importance of understanding clients as you build your understanding of the law [18:44] - Why Addison chose to start his own firm instead of joining BigLaw [22:00] - The benefits of not scaling your law firm [25:45] - What early entrepreneurial experiences can offer as life lessons [31:00] - How Addison’s legal practice changed since 2014 [36:30] - The benefits of staying in the legal profession [39:00] - The first stablecoin in Canada [44:30] - The process associated with novel legal work (Canadian stablecoin) [48:30] - Twitter and American Law (from a Canadian’s perspective) [54:00] - DAOs over the next five years Thanks for listening!
1/17/202257 minutes
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#22 - Jacob Martin: Becoming @theNFTattorney, buying a crypto punk and building a crypto-focused firm after law school.

Jacob Martin (@thenftattorney) is an attorney based in Southern California, founder of JTM Tech Law, and General Partner at 2 Punks Capital. While in law school, Jacob founded a legal tech startup focused on "tying Testamentary documents to the blockchain." Today, as Founder of JTM Tech Law, he consults & advises NFT artists & collectors, DAOs, auction houses, entertainment & tech companies on all things crypto, blockchain, & NFT.  Show highlights: - His introduction to Bitcoin and NFTs - Buying a Cryptopunk - Becoming the "NFT Attorney" & starting a crypto-focused practice - Learning the law as a sole practitioner  - How Jacob produced the NFT Tax Guide - Why he's still a lawyer & much more.
1/10/202242 minutes, 39 seconds
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#21 - Michael Bacina: Australia's approach to crypto, playing offence in your career and how America's crypto policies impact the globe.

Michael Bacina (@MikeBacina) is a Partner at Piper Alderman in Sydney, Australia. Michael advises companies at the intersection of cutting edge technology, automation and innovation. Michael regularly publishes on Blockchain and technology matters. He has been ranked Band 1 in FinTech by the prestigious Chambers & Partners in 2019, 2020 and 2021, and serves on the Board of Blockchain Australia and the Board of the Canadian Australian Chamber of Commerce. Show highlights: - Michael's blockchain-based practice at Piper Alderman - Building one of the best blockchain-focused legal practices in Australia - Recent Australian Government paper on virtual assets "We've never seen so many companies asking to be regulated" - The benefits of a background in computer programming  - Michael's blog about blockchain law - Working with the Australian Government on crypto regulation - What makes a great lawyer - How to get a job in crypto law & much more.
1/3/202250 minutes, 16 seconds
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#20 - Ari Redbord & Drew Morris: TRM Labs, VASPs, FATF and government vs private practice.

TRM Labs delivers cryptocurrency fraud detection and anti-money laundering (AML) solutions to financial institutions and governments worldwide.  Ari Redbord (@ARedbord) is Head of Legal & Government Affairs at TRM. Prior to joining TRM, Ari served at the United States Department of the Treasury as a Senior Advisor to the Deputy Secretary and the Under Secretary for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence (TFI). In this capacity, Ari worked with teams from the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN), Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC), and other Treasury and interagency components on issues related to cryptocurrency, sanctions, the Bank Secrecy Act, and anti-money laundering strategies. Drew Morris (@Drew_Morris) is Legal Counsel at TRM. Prior to TRM, Drew was General Counsel at WorkJam and an Associate at Wilson Sonsini Goodrich and Rosati LLP.  Show highlights: - Ari's introduction to crypto through experience with North Korea - Why TRM Labs is an important part of the crypto ecosystem - TRM Talks - Comparing the startup environment with work as a prosecutor - What they both learned in previous roles - FATF’s final version of its Updated Guidance for a Risk-Based Approach for Virtual Assets and Virtual Asset Providers - VASP - What makes a top calibre lawyer - How to network in the legal profession & much more.
12/27/202152 minutes, 4 seconds
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#19 - Becoming a Crypto Lawyer: How to capitalize on your crypto-law interest, with Jake Chervinsky, Rebecca Rettig and Sarah Shtylman

Jake Chervinsky (@jchervinsky) is involved in all aspects of the crypto ecosystem & has a strong understanding of the regulatory space surrounding crypto. Jake is Head of Policy at the Blockchain Association and Advisor for the Variant Fund, and former General Counsel for Compound Labs.  Rebecca Rettig (@RebeccaRettig1) is the General Counsel of the Aave Companies, a group of software development companies in Europe that build open source, blockchain-based software. Rebecca began her legal career at Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP in New York, litigating complex commercial disputes; prior to joining the Aave Companies, Rebecca was a partner at Manatt, Phelps & Phillips LLP in the financial services group, representing blockchain and crypto clients.  Sarah (Hody) Shtylman (@SHodyEsq) is a Partner at Perkins Coie, where she advises innovators in the fintech and blockchain industries, and her clients range from entrepreneurs and startups to big tech and regulated financial institutions. Sarah’s background includes serving as in-house regulatory counsel at Coinbase (2nd lawyer hired), Levine & Associates (a litigation boutique), and Hody Esq., as a Sole Proprietor.  This episode answers the question: What should I do if I want to become a crypto lawyer? While focused on crypto, the principles can be applied to any legal area. This was such a fun episode to record, as each guest offers incredible insights.   Show highlights:  - How Rebecca built a practice in crypto [3:30]  - What helped Rebecca establish a crypto arbitration practice [7:45]  - Sarah’s introduction to crypto [9:00]  - Being the second lawyer at Coinbase [14:00]  - Jake’s crypto law journey [16:00]  - What law students should get on their resume to get roles in crypto [21:00]  - How to determine which area of law to tie crypto into [34:00]  - Finding an area of law in which to specialize [37:00]  - Dealing with the pressure to specialize [41:00]  “Recognizing when you hit diminishing returns in your job, and when it’s time to move on” - Jake  - Imposter syndrome in the legal industry [44:00]  - Do crypto lawyers need to learn to code? [49:00]  - One important piece of advice for professionals beginning their careers [63:00]  “Come join the revolution with us” - Rebecca  Thanks for listening! If you enjoyed the podcast, please share and review. You can follow me, Jacob Robinson, on Twitter @jacobrobinsonjd. For the latest updates from Law of Code - subscribe to our newsletter.
12/20/20211 hour, 5 minutes, 26 seconds
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#18 - Gabriel Shapiro & Sarah Brennan: Governance structures, LeXPunk, updating the VC model and DAOs.

Gabe and Sarah are experts on all things crypto and some of my brightest minds in the space. If you’re at all interested in Web3, you must follow both.  Gabriel Shapiro (@lex_node) is General Counsel at Delphi Labs. Gabe was previously a Partner at Belcher, Smolen & Van Loo LLP, where he was a corporate attorney for builders of DeFi, DAOs, blockchain & other decentralization technologies.  Sarah (Lord) Brennan (@SH_Brennan) is a corporate and securities attorney with over a decade of experience and a strong interest in technology who is passionate about helping companies grow and scale. Sarah is General Counsel at Delphi Ventures. Prior to joining Delphi, Sarah was Head of Harter Secrest & Emery LLP's Digital Assets and Disruptive Tech Practice and is a former Partner at Lippes Mathias LLP. Show highlights - Problems Gabe and Sarah see with the regulatory approach to crypto and viable paths forward  - Competing philosophies around tokens – essentialism vs functionalism - What are tokens, legally? What should they be - What is decentralization legally, why is it important and how could this change in the future? - Governance structures, what does good governance mean, what are the common theories and opportunities, best practices - LeXPunk – 2-min intro to LexPunk + Builder Defense DAO, plans, visions, values - Updating the Venture Model for DeFi: problems & solutions  - What aspect of crypto-law are Gabe and Sarah most interested in seeing develop and why & much more
12/13/20211 hour, 50 minutes, 42 seconds
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#17 - Jason Gottlieb: Lawyers & DAOs, MoCo crypto-litigation tracker, Indexed Juris, NFTs & more.

Jason Gottlieb (@ohaiom) is a Partner in Morrison Cohen LLP’s Business Litigation Department, and Chair of the White Collar and Regulatory Enforcement practice group. Jason is the principal author of the MoCo Cryptocurrency Litigation Tracker and was named to the National Law Journal‘s inaugural list of Cryptocurrency, Blockchain and Fintech Trailblazers.  Jason regularly advises U.S. and foreign companies on blockchain and cryptocurrency law relating to litigation and regulatory risk issues and has been widely published and quoted in the media for his cryptocurrency and blockchain expertise.  Show highlights  - Jason's introduction to crypto  - Working at a Japanese Internet Service Provider in Tokyo  - Building expertise in crypto-law  - Kleiman v. Wright  - Cryptocurrency litigation tracker  - Indexed Finance Hack: ~$16m of tokens were stolen  - Working with DAOs (50 min-mark) - NFTs & much more.
11/29/20211 hour, 28 minutes, 42 seconds
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#16 - Sina Kian, VP of Strategy at Aleo: A16Z backed startup, Zero-Knowledge Proofs, and why "find your passion" is the wrong advice.

Sina Kian (@SinaKian1) is Vice President of Strategy at Aleo, a company that is building a decentralized blockchain with significantly enhanced data security and privacy capabilities. He is also an Adjunct Professor at NYU Law School, and a Term Member at the Council on Foreign Relations. Sina received his BA in History at the University of Virginia, and his JD from Stanford Law School. After law school, Sina clerked for Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., on the Supreme Court. Sina practiced law at WilmerHale, later transitioning to an investing role, working as a Vice President at Blackstone, and then to Kennedy Lewis. Show highlights: - His current role at Aleo (aleo.org) - What is Aleo? What problem does this a16z backed startup solve? - Clerking for Justice Roberts on the Supreme Court - Why transition out of law? - Zero-Knowledge Proofs  - Targeting Developers - Finding the perfect mentor & much more. Sina is brilliant and this interview is packed with interesting takeaways.
11/22/20211 hour, 14 minutes, 7 seconds
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#15 - Drew Hinkes: Rug pulls, preventing the loss of private keys, United States v. Van Buren, and "not your legal title, not your coins"

Nominated as one of Coindesk’s Most Influential People in Blockchain in 2017, Andrew “Drew” Hinkes (@propelforward) is a Partner with K&L Gates, working as part of its National Blockchain and Digital Currency practice.  Drew was appointed as an Adjunct Professor by the NYU Stern Business School and the NYU School of Law, where he co-teaches “Digital Currency, Blockchains, and the Future of the Financial Services Industry.” Drew is also the co-founder and General Counsel of Athena Blockchain, a professional services firm focused on tokenized investment products. Show highlights: Drew's blockchain story His legal practice Cryptolaw at NYU Stern His 2019 paper: Throw away the key, or the key holder? Coercive contempt for lost or forgotten cryptocurrency private keys, or obstinate holders. How courts best prevent the "loss" of private keys 5th amendment response to private key requests Liens against identifiable cryptoassets Rug pulls United States v. Van Buren Time management Legal title and digital assets Drew was a fantastic guest and the episode is a great peek into the mind of one of the best crypto lawyers.  Thanks for listening - If you enjoyed the show, we'd appreciate a review!
11/15/20211 hour, 31 minutes, 7 seconds
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#14 - Hailey Lennon: Bitcoin stories, CryptoConnect, public speaking and building a legal practice in Crypto

Hailey Lennon (@HaileyLennonBTC) is one of the most well-known lawyers in crypto law. Hailey is a shareholder in Anderson Kill’s Technology, Media and Distributed Systems Group.  She is based in California and affiliated with Anderson Kill’s Los Angeles office. Hailey previously spent time as regulatory counsel for various companies in the crypto space, including Coinbase, bitFlyer, and Silvergate Bank. She frequently speaks at major conferences about the laws surrounding cryptocurrencies.  Show highlights:  - When Hailey was introduced to Bitcoin  - Her journey from Law School to Crypto Lawyer  - Playing offense in your career  - Scaling BSA/AML Programs  - Stablecoins & the Biden Administration  - CryptoConnect  - NFTs  - How to improve your public speaking ability You can learn more about Hailey here and follow her on Twitter.  Thanks for listening - If you enjoyed the show, we'd appreciate it if you leave a review!
11/8/20211 hour, 15 minutes, 6 seconds
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#13 - Evan Thomas: WealthSimple Crypto, going "all-in" on crypto, working with regulators & becoming a great lawyer.

Evan Thomas (@evanmthomas) is Head of Legal at WealthSimple Crypto, a platform launched by WealthSimple as the first regulated crypto exchange in Canada. Prior to joining Wealthsimple, Evan spent nearly 15 years as a litigator with Osler Hoskin & Harcourt LLP, where he focused on cases involving technology and data. Before his legal career, Evan worked as a software developer and systems/network administrator. Show highlights: - Evan's genesis block - Why Evan left Big Law for crypto - Advice for lawyers considering going "all-in" in crypto - How regulators can work with crypto exchanges to balance innovation with consumer protection - Coinbase Lend - NFTs - Time management as a lawyer - What makes a great lawyer You can find Evan on Twitter @evanmthomas. Thanks for listening - If you enjoyed the show, we'd appreciate a review!
11/1/202146 minutes, 5 seconds
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#12 - Collins Belton (Part 2): NFTs, rug pulls, fiduciary duty, Twitter habits and routines & what's next for Collins.

Collins Belton (@collins_belton) is one of the brightest minds in crypto law. Collins is the founder and Managing Partner of Brookwood P.C., a boutique transactional practice focused on serving founders, startups and emerging technology companies working on frontier technology, particularly in the digital asset space.  Show highlights:  - NFTs: Dutch auctions vs Vickrey auctions  - Collins Coin?  - Equity in exchange for legal advice  - Fiduciary responsibility in NFTs  - Gaining crypto experience as a young lawyer  - What's next for Collins?  - What makes a great lawyer  - Anime, cooking, and other hobbies.  Collins was so great that we’ve turned the interview into two parts. You can listen to the first part here. Thanks for listening - If you enjoyed the show, we'd appreciate a review!
10/25/202154 minutes, 18 seconds
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#11 - Collins Belton (Part 1): Gary Gensler, Coinbase Lend, the Howey Test & the biggest legal problems facing crypto.

Collins Belton (@collins_belton) is one of the brightest minds in crypto law. Collins is the founder and Managing Partner of Brookwood P.C., a boutique transactional practice focused on serving founders, startups and emerging technology companies working on frontier technology, particularly in the digital asset space.  Show highlights:  - When Collins was introduced to blockchain technology  - Why Collins founded Brookwood PC  - Coinbase Lend  - The Howey Test & investment contracts  - Gary Gensler reframing the DeFi narrative  - What Collins would do as head of the SEC  - The biggest legal problems in crypto today  Collins was so great that we’ve turned the interview into two parts. Check out our next episode to hear how Collins stays on top of all things crypto, his favorite NFTs, and what's next for Collins after he "retired" from private practice.  Thanks for listening - If you enjoyed the show, we'd appreciate a review!
10/18/202155 minutes, 19 seconds
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#10 - Eric Richmond, COO at Coinsquare: Holding crypto for institutional clients, becoming a great crypto lawyer, and what's next for crypto lawyers.

Eric Richmond, COO at Coinsquare (formerly VP of Legal) and CEO at Tetra Trust, has extensive experience working with and advising startups and blockchain companies. Eric has extensive knowledge of the principles, applications, and current developments affecting blockchains. This interview is an excellent discussion on holding cryptocurrency for large clients, defining crypto as a security, and how to become a great crypto lawyer.  Show highlights: - How Eric built a crypto practice as a young lawyer - Transitioning from private practice to in-house at a crypto exchange - Coinsquare & Tetra Trust - Working with Government actors  - Applying current laws to DeFi - Crypto's "Cannabis" moment - What makes a great lawyer? You can learn more about Tetra Trust here and follow Eric on LinkedIn.  Thanks for listening - If you enjoyed the show, we'd appreciate if you leave a review!
10/11/202148 minutes, 46 seconds
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#9 - Matthew Burgoyne: Building a legal career in crypto, securities laws and Bitcoin, securing your first crypto client, and what makes a great lawyer.

Matthew "Bitcoin" Burgoyne is a Partner at McLeod Law LLP, in Calgary, Canada. Matthew's legal practice involves securities and capital markets, with a focus on blockchain-based digital assets. He has been advising companies in the cryptocurrency space since the summer of 2013, making him one of the first Canadian lawyers to act for cryptocurrency companies in Canada. Matthew was an integral part of McLeod Law’s efforts to accept bitcoin as payment for legal services in the fall of 2013, making McLeod Law the first full-service law firm in Canada to accept bitcoin. His clients in the cryptocurrency and blockchain space include cryptocurrency exchange platforms, cryptocurrency wallet developers, issuers of digital currency (including stablecoins and NFTs), cryptocurrency miners, and cryptocurrency investment funds. Show highlights: - How Matthew first learned of blockchain technology in 2013 - Why he built a legal career with a cryptocurrency focus - How Matthew got his first crypto exchange client - Why crypto startups should bring in outside counsel early - What makes a great lawyer - The importance of publishing articles as a young lawyer You can view Matthew's profile here or follow him on Twitter (@burgoynematt). Thanks for listening - If you enjoyed the show, we'd appreciate it if you leave a review!
10/4/202151 minutes, 3 seconds
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#8 - Geoff Costeloe: Digital estate planning, tax considerations for holders of crypto and NFTs, and the future of smart contract estate planning

Geoff Costeloe is a lawyer and entrepreneur at Lindsey MacCarthy LLP, in Vancouver, Canada. Geoff’s legal practice revolves around estate planning and administration, with a focus on digital assets. Geoff knows crypto inside-out, and this episode is a deep dive into why estate lawyers are so important for holders of crypto and NFTs. We also touched on how blockchain technology will shape the estate planning profession over the next 5-10 years. Geoff was a great guest, is building a one-of-a-kind legal practice, and I’m grateful he took the time to speak with me. Show highlights: - Why it's never too early to begin estate planning - Tax implications of buying/selling digital assets - Why lawyers should join LexDAO - What regulators can do to ensure a thriving crypto economy - Smart contracts and the future of estate planning - Why individuals should work with a lawyer who understands blockchain technology You can find Geoff on Twitter (@gcosteloe), where he talks crypto, estate law, and even some Canadian politics.  Thanks for listening - If you enjoyed the show, we'd appreciate it if you leave a review!
9/27/20211 hour, 35 minutes, 11 seconds
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#7 - Any Obando: NFTs, NBA Top-Shots, intellectual property law, and enforcing copyright law in a digital world.

Any Obando, Associate at Cozen O'Connor, practices intellectual property law and has a great understanding of NFTs. In this episode, Any explains what NFTs are, what businesses will benefit from NFTs, IP associated with NBA Top Shots, and what legal rights NFT holders are entitled to.  This interview is an excellent primer on the laws surrounding NFTs, as Any is very knowledgeable in this space. I recommend anyone interested in NFTs use this podcast as an all-encompassing introduction. Show highlights: - When Any first learned of blockchain technology - What is an NFT? - The novel benefits NFTs offer when compared to Web 2 digital assets - IP rights associated with NBA Top Shots - Storing NFTs in digital wallets - Legislation impacting NFTs - Advice Any wishes she knew before beginning her legal career You can view Any's profile here or follow her on LinkedIn. Here's the primer on NFTs we discussed. Thanks for listening - If you enjoyed the show, we'd appreciate it if you leave a review!
9/20/202154 minutes, 7 seconds
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#6 - James McCall: The LexDAO Episode

James McCall, Legal Engineer at LexDAO, is building Farmapper LLC, a platform putting agriculture online through the blockchain. James does not currently represent legal clients but has a dual major finance/accounting undergraduate degree and a JD law degree. He has experience originating and servicing a large commercial loan portfolio for various lending institutions to finance agricultural real estate. We spoke about all things LEX Dao and blockchain law. Show highlights: - Transitioning from Lawyer to Legal Engineer - How lawyers can learn to code - Why lawyers should join LexDAO - How new members can thrive in LexDAO - What projects the lawyers/engineers at LexDAO are building - Helpful habits for young professionals You can find James on Twitter (@mccallios), where he talks NFTs, DeFi, and all things crypto. You also can find LexDAO on Twitter (lex_dao) Thanks for listening - If you enjoyed the show, we'd appreciate it if you leave a review!
9/13/202151 minutes, 1 second
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#5 - Ross Campbell: Legal engineering, Bar Association DAOs, use cases for oracles, and much, much more

Ross Campbell, Legal Engineer at LexDAO and co-founder of OpenEsquire, discusses building in the legal engineering space, the best use cases for DAOs, and why he's helping build OpenEsquire. This interview is packed with takeaways, and Ross continues to amaze me with his knowledge of this space (I am out of my league - I began studying immediately after our conversation). Highly recommend any lawyer interested in blockchain technology use this podcast to learn from Ross. Show highlights: - How to avoid being "coded out of a job" - Transitioning from Big Law to Legal Engineer - Building OpenEsquire (an LLC DAO)  - Forming LexDAO and working with DAOs - Why DAOs are easily attackable and best strategies for DAO consensus - The importance of private law concepts for DAOs - Why trusts should use DAOs & how Bar Associations can benefit from operating as a DAO  Thanks for listening - If you enjoyed the show, we'd appreciate it if you leave a review!
8/9/202153 minutes, 24 seconds
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#4 - Erich Dylus: How Web3 can leverage off-chain data in a compliant manner

Erich Dylus, Legal Engineer at API3 DAO, discusses how API3 is building a GDPR compliant product for blockchain, along with the idea of 1st and 3rd party oracles. Show highlights: - When Erich was introduced to blockchain technology - How API3 is building compliance-focused oracle software - The EU's GDPR & international privacy regulations affecting crypto - Why learning solidity is important (Erich's github is helpful) - The legal future of DAOs - The movie of the year, Dune Thanks for listening - If you enjoyed the show, we'd appreciate it if you can take a minute to leave a review!
8/4/202157 minutes, 23 seconds
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#3 - Daniel Rollingher: Putting real estate on a blockchain

Daniel Rollingher, General Counsel at Fabrica.land, discusses how he is building a blockchain for real estate, along with the difficulties of working with jurisdictions across America. Show highlights: - When Daniel was introduced to blockchain technology - How Fabrica works to put real estate on-chain - The skills required as in-house counsel for a blockchain company - Most difficult roadblocks to gaining widespread blockchain adoption - What most people get wrong about blockchain laws - The future of real estate on the blockchain Thanks for listening - If you enjoyed the show, we'd appreciate it if you can take a minute to leave a review!
7/29/202145 minutes, 40 seconds
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#2 - Dr. Muharem Kianieff: Creator of Canada's first course on blockchain law

Dr. Muharem Kianieff, Associate Professor at the University of Windsor Faculty of Law, discusses the KYC and privacy laws affecting crypto, along with what the history of credit cards can teach us about the widespread adoption of crypto. Show highlights: - His introduction to blockchain technology  - How crypto can adapt to satisfy privacy legislation  - Which period of history is most analogous to the current state of crypto  - Why, as an academic, he doesn't own any crypto  - What most people get wrong about blockchain laws  - The evolving crypto regulations that Professor Kianieff is keeping an eye on  Thanks for listening - If you enjoyed the show, please leave a review - it would be a huge help and we'd really appreciate it!
7/26/202150 minutes, 46 seconds
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Introduction to Law of Code

Welcome to the Law of Code podcast! Law of Code focuses on the legal frameworks surrounding blockchain technology. You’ll learn about the crypto laws, IP, and copyrights surrounding NFTs, and stay updated on the legal landscape of blockchain. While this podcast focuses on Canadian laws, we’ll look at best practices and new regulations across jurisdictions. You’ll hear from the top lawyers, lawmakers, and entrepreneurs in the space - we’ll touch on new legal strategies countries are implementing, adoption of blockchains in different industries, and share ideas on the best path forward. We’re launching the show on Wednesday, July 7th. Subscribe today to stay updated on the laws of blockchain.
7/2/202147 seconds