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Diane Rehm: On My Mind

English, Political, 1 season, 64 episodes, 1 day, 16 hours, 50 minutes
Diane Rehm’s weekly podcast features newsmakers, writers, artists and thinkers on the issues she cares about most: what’s going on in Washington, ideas that inform, and the latest on living well as we live longer.
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A Call For The People To Take Control Of Our Democracy

Eddie S. Glaude Jr. has a message for Americans: it is time for ordinary people to take charge of our democracy. An African American Studies professor at Princeton, Glaude argues that we have outsourced our responsibility for creating a just society to the political class for too long -- and it hasn’t worked. Glaude explores these ideas in a new book titled “We are the Leader We Have Been Looking For.” He says the roots of this thinking took hold around the time of the election of Barack Obama in 2008. Many Americans celebrated a post-racial era in the country, but Glaude felt uneasy. He worried Obama’s presidency limited Black political engagement as Black Americans – and others -- turned to a “prophet-like figure.” Since then, Glaude has become increasingly convinced that political leaders are not the answer. Glaude is the author of two previous books, “Democracy in Black: How Race Still Enslaves the American Soul” and the bestseller “Begin Again: James Baldwin's America and Its Urgent Lessons for Our Own.” He is also a political commentator for MSNBC. He joins Diane to talk about his new book, the 2024 election, and why he says the concept of “whiteness” is holding back all Americans from moving toward a more democratic future.
4/18/202441 minutes, 53 seconds
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A 'What to Expect When You're Expecting' For The Menopause Years

Once a taboo topic, menopause has recently come out of the shadows. Media headlines declare it is “having a moment,” as celebrities like Michelle Obama, Drew Barrymore and Oprah have shared their experiences with “the change.” Even Washington is paying attention. In March, President Biden signed an executive order that funds research into women’s health – including midlife conditions like menopause. “We cannot afford not to address the health issues of women as they age,” says Dr. Sharon Malone, a gynecologist and vocal advocate for menopause awareness. She points out that menopausal women are the fastest growing demographic in the country, 80% of whom will experience menopause related symptoms such as hot flashes, sleeplessness, or anxiety. This is not just a matter of inconvenience, adds Dr. Malone, but left untreated, can lead to more serious conditions like cardiovascular disease. Dr. Malone is the author of a new book titled “Grown Woman Talk.” She calls it a “‘What to Expect When You’re Expecting’ book for women who plan to live past 40,” referencing the popular pregnancy guide. Dr. Malone joins Diane on this week’s episode of On My Mind to explain why the current attention to menopause is long overdue, and why understanding this phase of life is so critical to a woman’s ability to get – and stay – healthy.  
4/11/202443 minutes, 53 seconds
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How Trump Is Using Christianity To Power The MAGA Movement

Donald Trump has enjoyed strong support from white Evangelical Christians since his first run for the presidency. But recently, he has made a specific brand of Christianity a centerpiece of his campaign. He repeatedly casts himself as a messiah figure, even comparing his legal troubles to the persecution of Christ. He regularly ends his rallies with prayer. And last week he started hocking a version of the Bible that also includes copies of the founding documents of the United States. “Trump is now wrapping his candidacy around this idea of White Christian Nationalism,” says Robert P. Jones, president and founder of the Public Religion Research Institute, or PRRI. He is also author of two books about the relationship between race and religion in the United States, “The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy,” as well as “White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity.” Jones joins Diane on this week’s episode of On My Mind to talk about what’s behind the attempts to build The Church of Trump, and why he sees it as a dangerous development for the country. To find out more about Robert P. Jones and read his latest, visit his blog, “White Too Long”:
4/4/202440 minutes, 26 seconds
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Donald Trump's Family History With Alzheimer's Disease

Donald Trump has made cognitive decline a major issue in this year’s presidential race. On the campaign trail he accuses Biden of impairment, while boasting of his own brilliance. Yet, this line of attack is nothing new. He has long accused rivals of mental frailty, weaponizing the issue of dementia for his own gain. Washington Post investigative reporter Michael Kranish says Trump’s fixation on mental fitness came after years of watching his father’s own experience with Alzheimer’s disease. Kranish joins Diane on today’s episode of On My Mind to discuss Fred Trump’s dementia, Donald Trump’s reaction to it, and what questions we should be asking of our candidates when it comes to cognitive ability. You can read Michael Kranish’s piece about this here:
3/28/202431 minutes, 52 seconds
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Trump's Money Troubles

Donald Trump owes the state of New York almost half-a-billion dollars in fines. This stems from a civil fraud suit that found the Trump Organization engaged in a decades-long conspiracy to lie about the value of their assets. A deadline to pay is looming and his lawyers say the former president does not have the cash, nor can he find a company to cover the bond. This comes on top of a 91.6 million dollar fine in the E. Jean Carroll defamation case that he posted earlier this month. “He had been very glib about saying, oh I can afford it, easy peasy, I’m super rich,” says Edward Luce, U.S. editor and columnist for the Financial Times. “It turns out he obviously doesn’t have anything like that.” Luce joins Diane on this episode of On My Mind to talk about Trump’s finances and what these legal penalties could mean for him and his candidacy.
3/21/202435 minutes, 23 seconds
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How Old Is Too Old? Age And The 2024 Election

How old is too old to be president? It’s a question many Americans are asking as Joe Biden and Donald Trump face off for the office. President Biden is 81. Over the last four years, his hair has thinned, his gait has stiffened. And the media, not to mention his opponent, have pounced on his verbal gaffes, like when he mixed up the presidents of Egypt and Mexico, or when he seemed to momentarily forget the name of “Hamas.” Meanwhile, Donald Trump is 77 and has experienced his own memory lapses, including when in a recent speech he said “Nikki Haley” was in charge of security on January 6th, when he clearly meant Nancy Pelosi. “I wish we could separate our conversation about age and competency,” says Tracey Gendron, an expert on aging and author of the book “Ageism Unmasked.” She says that these issues with recall do not necessarily signify any underlying cognitive issues, but could happen to anyone, though admittedly increase as we age. Tracey Gendron joins Diane on this episode of On My Mind to talk about memory, mental competency, and why she feels our conversation about age this election season is missing the mark.
3/14/202429 minutes, 36 seconds
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The Supreme Court Sets The Stage For A Trump-Biden Rematch

Those who see Donald Trump as a threat to democracy have taken solace in the cases piling up against him. There were civil cases that carried massive financial penalties. There were four criminal cases whose trials were set to take place before the November election. And there was the question of the Fourteenth Amendment that could have barred trump from the ballot. But two recent Supreme Court decisions have changed that. “It’s going to be Biden versus Trump,” says Ian Millhiser, senior correspondent at Vox. “There is no magical anything that is going to stop us from having an election between Joe Biden and Donald Trump.” Millhiser writes about the Supreme Court, the Constitution, and the decline of liberal democracy in the United States. He joins Diane on this episode of On My Mind to talk about Trump’s recent legal victories and why he argues “the courts were never going to save American democracy.”
3/7/202448 minutes, 2 seconds
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The Human Cost Of The War In Gaza

As the conflict between Israel and Hamas rages on, the level of human suffering in the Gaza Strip has come into clearer focus. The death toll in Gaza surpassed 30,000 this week, according to the Gazan health ministry. The United Nations estimates that 2 million Palestinians in the territory have been internally displaced by war. New reports say nearly all of the 2.3 million people in the enclave face crisis levels of food insecurity. And at least one quarter of the population is one step away from famine. Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib is a U.S. citizen from Gaza who has lost 31 family members so far in the conflict. He is also a Middle East analyst whose writing has appeared in Foreign Policy, The Atlantic, and the Washington Post. He joined Diane on this week’s episode of On My Mind to share his family’s story — and what it says about the broader humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
2/29/202438 minutes, 18 seconds
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The Death Of Alexei Navalny And The Future Of Russia

Last week the Russian government announced the death of opposition leader Alexei Navalny, the Kremlin’s harshest and most well-known critic. For more than a decade, Navalny campaigned against the corruption of Vladimir Putin and his allies. He ran for mayor of Moscow, crisscrossed the country in an attempted run for president, and offered a younger generation a glimpse of a post-Putin Russia. During that time, he also endured arrests, beatings, and in 2020, a near fatal poisoning. At the time of his death, he was imprisoned at a penal colony in the Arctic on what his supporters say were politically motivated charges. “Navalny was the plan for the day after,” says Julia Ioffe, longtime journalist who covers Russia and U.S.-Russia relations. Even behind bars, she says, he represented hope for those who opposed Putin’s power. Ioffe joins Diane on this episode of On My Mind to discuss the life, death and legacy of Alexei Navalny.
2/22/202429 minutes, 53 seconds
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The Supreme Court, Donald Trump And The 2024 Election

Last week Supreme Court justices heard arguments about whether the state of Colorado could ban Donald Trump from the ballot. This week, Trump petitioned the justices to temporarily block a decision by a federal appeals court regarding his claim of presidential immunity. “The real question to me is how do these two cases, the Colorado case and the January 6th prosecution, end up fitting together,” says Stephen Vladeck, professor at the University of Texas School of Law and author of the New York Times bestseller “The Shadow Docket.” Vladeck joined Diane on this episode of On My Mind to explain these cases and why, together, they highlight the role today’s Supreme Court plays in the country’s democracy. For more from Stephen Vladeck, you can read his newsletter, One First.
2/15/202433 minutes, 21 seconds
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What The Fight Over Decriminalization In Oregon Means For The Future Of US Drug Policy

In 2020 Oregon voters overwhelmingly passed a measure that decriminalized drug use. Since the law went into effect three years ago, homelessness in the state has increased, the rate of overdose deaths has risen sharply and the support for decriminalization has plummeted. Now, Oregon legislators on both sides of the aisle are considering overturning the measure, reinstating a more “law and order” approach to addiction. “Drugs are a symptom of what’s going on,” says Maia Szalavitz, contributing opinion writer at the New York Times who covers addiction and public policy. “Drugs are not the primary cause of what happened.” Szalavitz joins Diane on the latest episode of On My Mind to talk about the fight over decriminalizing drugs in Oregon – and what it means for the rest of the country.
2/8/202430 minutes, 39 seconds
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The Threat Of Deepfakes In The 2024 Election

Over the last year, a leap in technology has put powerful generative AI tools in the hands of practically anyone with a computer. This means creating fake audio, images, and video has never been easier. “That’s a democratization of a technology that should terrify us,” says Hany Farid, professor of computer science at the University of California, Berkeley. “Because now I can make the president of the United States, or a candidate for the highest office in the United States, say anything I want them to say.” Farid is an expert in artificial intelligence and disinformation who is tracking the use of AI in the 2024 election. He worries that widespread access to these powerful new technologies will exacerbate pre-existing challenges to our democracy, particularly a shared understanding of truth itself. “I think it’s like throwing jet fuel onto a dumpster fire,” Farid tells Diane in the latest episode of On My Mind. Visit Hany Farid’s website to see how AI has been used in the 2024 election:
2/1/202434 minutes, 53 seconds
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What's Missing From Today's Immigration Debate

A record surge of migrants at the U.S.- Mexico border has pushed politicians on both sides of the aisle to look for ways to ease pressure on what many consider to be an overloaded, out-of-date, and needlessly bureaucratic immigration system. Yet, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Molly O’Toole says the focus of negotiations misses the mark when it comes to finding real solutions to the current crisis at the border. “We first need to understand who is coming, why they are coming, and where they are coming from,” she explains, adding that the demographics of the migrants crossing into the United States over the southern border has changed dramatically since the 1990s, but the proposed solutions have not. In the latest episode of On My Mind, O’Toole outlines what she thinks is missing from the country’s current immigration debate.
1/26/202447 minutes, 2 seconds
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Paul Krugman Takes The Temperature On "Bidenomics" And The U.S. Economy

In poll after poll, voters around the country say their number one issue is the economy. Which should be good news for President Biden as we approach the November election. The job market is strong, the stock market is up, and inflation is down. And yet, more than 70 percent of Americans rate economic conditions in the country as poor, with percent calling them very poor. Meanwhile, voters in swing states say they trust Donald Trump more than Joe Biden as an economic leader. “There are a bunch of things that have conspired to perpetuate the narrative of a bad economy even as the reality is kind of a miracle,” says Paul Krugman, New York Times columnist and Nobel laureate in economics. Krugman joins Diane to offer his perspective on just how healthy the U.S. economy is under Biden, was under Trump, and whether either man should actually get credit for it.
1/18/202441 minutes, 37 seconds
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How To Get Kids To Return To Class – And Stay There

Millions of American children are regularly skipping class. It is a problem educators have faced for years, but the issue has gotten much worse since the pandemic. Today, some estimate that nearly one in three students are “chronically absent,” meaning they miss more than 10 percent of the school year. Now, educators around the country are facing the question of what to do about it.   Alec MacGillis is a reporter for ProPublica who focuses on gun violence, economic inequality, and the pandemic-era schools crisis. He recently wrote about chronic absenteeism for The New Yorker and joins Diane to talk about what he learned.  
1/11/202437 minutes, 7 seconds
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A Look Ahead To The Issues, Questions And Politics Of The 2024 Election

In less than two weeks, the Iowa Caucus will kick off an election year like no other. Donald Trump leads his Republican rivals by nearly 50 percentage points. Yet, he has been barred from the primary ballot in two states and faces legal challenges to his candidacy in more than a dozen others. And there is the matter of the four pending criminal court cases that have resulted in 91 criminal charges. Meanwhile, Joe Biden’s approval ratings have dropped to a record low, and he currently trails Trump in national polls. “There are two conflicting things here,” says Susan Page, Washington bureau chief for USA Today and a veteran political reporter who has covered 11 presidential campaigns. “A high level of dissatisfaction with the two candidates and also a sense that this election is of such great consequence.” Susan Page joins Diane for a preview of the questions, issues and legal arguments at the center of the 2024 presidential campaign.
1/4/202440 minutes, 14 seconds
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A Conversation With Bishop Mariann Budde About How We Learn To Be Brave

A note from Diane: For my last interview of 2023, I bring you a special conversation with Mariann Edgar Budde, Episcopal Bishop of Washington -- and my faith leader. She joined me for the December edition of the Diane Rehm Book Club to discuss her work titled "How We Learn to Be Brave." In it, Bishop Budde explores the decisive moments in life when we are called to push past our fears and act with strength. Using examples from literature, her own life, the gospel, and the lives of others, she writes that being brave is not a singular occurrence, but a journey that we can choose to undertake every day. I thought this was a perfect message to share as we say goodbye to one year and welcome the next. I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did. Wishes for peace and joy in 2024!
12/28/20231 hour, 7 seconds
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Understanding The 14th Amendment Case Against Donald Trump

Will the 14th Amendment prevent Donald Trump from running for president? It’s an idea that has gone from a longshot hope of liberal activists, to a buzzed about theory among respected legal scholars to a very real threat to Trump’s candidacy. In a bombshell decision earlier this week the Colorado Supreme Court ruled that Trump engaged in insurrection and should not be allowed to participate in the state’s Republican primary. The former president has said he will appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court, which is expected to quickly take up the case. “Whatever happens in this case, I think we’ll likely be surprised,” says Jeffrey Rosen, president of the National Constitution Center, a nonpartisan organization whose mission is to educate the public about the country’s founding document. He says there is simply no precedent for how to treat a presidential candidate who has been ruled “an insurrectionist." “It’s impossible to predict the outcome according to the ordinary rules of constitutional interpretation, because they just don’t apply,” he adds. Jeffrey Rosen joins Diane to talk about the Colorado court’s legal arguments, and the consequences of the ruling for Trump, the judiciary, and the country.
12/21/202337 minutes, 21 seconds
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Is Anti-Zionism Antisemitic?

Can you be anti-Zionist without being antisemitic? In other words, can you question the actions -- or existence -- of Israel without being seen as prejudiced against Jewish people? As Israel’s bombardment of Gaza continues, this question, that at one time seemed merely academic, has spilled onto the streets, across campuses, and into the halls of Congress. “The politicization of antisemitism and anti-Zionism in the United States is doing a grave disservice to Jews, and to Palestinians,” says Jonathan Weisman, political reporter for the New York Times and author of the book “(((Semitism))): Being Jewish in America in the Age of Trump.” He joins Diane on this episode of On My Mind to help define these terms, explain why they are being used to score political points, and what the impact of that could be on U.S. policy in the Middle East.
12/14/202335 minutes, 41 seconds
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What Might A Second Trump Presidency Look Like?

Not long ago, the idea that Donald Trump could return to the White House seemed like a MAGA-fueled fantasy. With his legal troubles piling up, Ron DeSantis surging, and President Biden notching legislative successes, a Trump victory appeared out of reach. Not anymore. And so, the question becomes, what would a second Trump term look like? “Chaos,” says David Frum, staff writer at The Atlantic. “It would mean endless questions about presidential power, military obedience. It would be chaos upon chaos, upon chaos.” Frum joins Diane on today’s episode of On My Mind to discuss “The Danger Ahead,” the lead essay for the January/February edition of The Atlantic. The issue features a series of pieces that consider what Donald Trump might do if he regains the presidency in 2024.
12/7/202340 minutes, 11 seconds
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Accelerating The Revolution In Green Household Technology

The annual United Nations climate conference, or COP 28, begins in Dubai this week. A big topic on people’s minds: how countries are doing on their pledges to slash production of greenhouse gasses outlined in The Paris Agreement. The consensus is ... not great. On this episode of On My Mind, Diane looks at one part of the effort to reduce emissions here in the U.S. -- the transformation away from fossil-fuel-powered machines we use to heat our homes, cook food, and drive to work. Experts agree households will have to embrace a suite of new low-carbon options to achieve President Biden’s goal of net-zero emissions by 2050. Michael J. Coren writes the “Climate Coach” column for the Washington Post. He joins Diane to explain what those options are – and the barriers to widespread adoption.
11/30/202332 minutes, 34 seconds
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Recipes From The French Kitchen Of "Bruno, Chief Of Police"

In 2008 journalist Martin Walker published the first of his Bruno, Chief of Police novels. Fifteen books later, the internationally bestselling series continues to delight readers with murder, mystery -- and delicious food. Walker has called the books a love letter to his adopted home of the Périgord region of southwestern France, where he lives in an old farmhouse with his wife, food writer Julia Watson. Indeed, the tales of Bruno take readers into the rich history of the area and its culinary traditions. The character of Benoît Courrèges – nicknamed “Bruno” – loves to cook and is perhaps known as much for transforming the bounty of his garden into elaborate meals as his ability to crack a case. Now Walker and his wife Julia Watson have released a cookbook that brings together many of Bruno’s culinary creations. They join Diane this Thanksgiving week to talk about “Bruno’s Cookbook: Recipes and Traditions from a French Country Kitchen” and share a couple of Bruno's favorite recipes, which you can find on our website,
11/22/202334 minutes, 46 seconds
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Zepbound, Wegovy, And A New Era In Weight Control

Last week, the FDA approved a medication said to be the most potent yet in the treatment of chronic obesity, a condition that affects more than 100 million American adults. Developed by Eli Lilly, Zepbound is the latest in a new class of drugs doctors now have to help patients lose weight. Others include Ozempic, Wegovy, and Mounjaro. “It’s like this total new world for weight control,” says Gina Kolata, a health reporter for the New York Times. She has written about this issue of obesity for decades and adds that after years with very little progress “these medications are really changing things.” Kolata joins Diane on the latest episode of On My Mind to break down how these drugs work, possible side effects, and what's next in the development of obesity medications.
11/16/202329 minutes, 31 seconds
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A Winning Streak For Democrats, Abortion Rights. Will It Continue In 2024?

Those in favor of abortion access notched several more victories in Tuesday’s elections.  Reproductive rights played a role in  wins for Democratic politicians in Virginia, Kentucky, and Pennsylvania. In Ohio, voters enshrined the right to abortion access in the state’s constitution. “It has become very hard for Republicans to distance themselves from these laws that are now on the books,” says Mary Ziegler, professor at U.C. Davis School of Law. These results came as good news for Democrats after a week that showed Donald Trump leading President Biden in polling in key swing states. But Ziegler warns Democrats shouldn’t count on abortion driving turnout in the presidential race in the same way we have seen in state contests. Unless, that is, they can connect the dots for voters on exactly what might change if Trump is re-elected. And those changes, she adds, could be dramatic. Ziegler is one of the country’s leading experts on the law, history, and politics of reproduction in the United States. She joins Diane on On My Mind to discuss where the abortion debate goes from here and whether it will be a deciding factor in 2024.
11/9/202336 minutes, 43 seconds
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What New School Cell Phone Bans Say About The Way We Regulate Tech

Earlier this year, Florida lawmakers outlawed the use of cell phones during class time in schools throughout the state. Some Florida school districts went further, barring phones from campus all day due to concerns over student distraction and risk of cyberbullying. Natasha Singer is a reporter for The New York Times who focuses on ways tech companies and their tools are reshaping public schools. She recently visited one of the Florida high schools that outlawed phones and talked to school administrators, teachers, parents and students to hear how the year is going. Singer adds that these new bans are spreading at the same time lawmakers across the country consider the issue of youth and technology more broadly. This past spring Utah adopted strict limitations on social media for minors. Just last week, states across the country sued tech companies, accusing them of making their apps intentionally addictive to adolescents. Singer joins Diane on this episode of On My Mind to explain the pros, cons, and unintended consequences of this wave of tech regulation.
11/2/202345 minutes, 28 seconds
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Being 80: A Conversation With Former Washington Post Editor Leonard Downie About Older Age

About 1.3 million, or one in 25 Americans, are over the age of 80. On My Mind has covered issues regarding our aging population in the past, from the coming crisis in care to whether enough legal protections are in place to prevent elder financial abuse.   On this episode, Leonard Downie, former executive editor of the Washington Post, joins Diane to talk about the experience of what life feels like in older age. “I’m determined not to fear the future,” he says. “Of course, sometimes I do.” As Downie approached his ninth decade, he started keeping a journal about the experience of becoming an octogenarian. For more than a year, he documented the daily changes, challenges, and unique pleasures of older age, and has now released his musings in a new book titled “80: An Octogenarian’s Journal.”
10/26/202333 minutes, 10 seconds
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The Crisis In The Middle East Deepens

A horrific bombing at a hospital in Gaza this week left hundreds of Palestinians dead and deepened the crisis in the Middle East. Hamas placed the blame for the devastating loss of life on an Israeli airstrike, but Israel and the United States say they have intelligence suggesting it was misfire by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, a militant group in Gaza. The strike pushed Arab leaders to cancel scheduled meetings with President Biden, who visited Israel Wednesday and voiced continued support for the country. Washington Post foreign affairs columnist David Ignatius says we are in a period where “people really have to think carefully about long-term interests.” Ignatius joins Diane to discuss the path forward and warns if leaders in the region act on emotion and think only of immediate goals, we could end up with a widespread, “catastrophic war.”
10/19/202336 minutes, 22 seconds
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A Former Peace Negotiator's View Of The Israel-Hamas War

Over the past several days the Israeli military has continued a devastating bombardment of the Gaza Strip, with airstrikes flattening entire neighborhoods. Forces also cut off supplies to the area as troops gathered for a likely ground invasion. This is, of course, in retaliation for the attack by Hamas fighters in Israeli territory on Saturday that left 1300 dead and filled social media with images of intense brutality against civilians. “I think we’re still in this period of grief,” says Daniel Kurtzer, former U.S. Ambassador to both Israel and Egypt. Kurtzer currently teaches Middle East policy at Princeton University and joined Diane to help give context to the tragic events unfolding in the Middle East.
10/12/202335 minutes, 56 seconds
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A Bumpy Vaccine Rollout And The Ongoing Risks Of Covid

Last month the FDA approved a new Covid vaccine. But many people around the country have had trouble getting it.   Lena Sun is a national reporter for the Washington Post who has covered Covid since it first emerged in China. She says this bumpy rollout is a result of how the shot is viewed. Under the federal government’s health emergency, vaccination was seen as a public good. Now the shots are seen as a commercial product, subject to terms of insurance companies, the bottom lines of providers, and market demands.  “What this has done is highlight the completely byzantine, lousy healthcare system in the United States,” Sun says.  Sun joined Diane to explain why it has been so difficult to get the vaccine, how dangerous Covid is today, and how to keep yourself and your loved ones safe as we move toward winter, when cases of not only Covid, but also RSV and flu are expected to rise.
10/5/202331 minutes, 4 seconds
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A Push To Improve America's Nursing Homes

Earlier this month, the Biden administration proposed new staffing standards for nursing homes to help improve conditions for the 1.3 million Americans living in facilities across the country. Advocates have pushed for this change for decades, but the pandemic highlighted just how critical the situation has become. More than 200,000 nursing home residents and workers died, or about one-fifth of the country’s overall Covid-19 deaths. And by all accounts, overall care plummeted. “This could be a game changer,” says David Grabowski, professor of health care policy at Harvard Medical School. His research examines the economics of aging, with a particular interest in the areas of long-term and post-acute care. He joins Diane to talk about what this new proposal might mean for quality of care – and why it might not go far enough.
9/28/202338 minutes, 53 seconds
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Could the 14th Amendment Block Trump from the Presidency?

Donald Trump holds a 47-point lead in the race for the GOP presidential nomination. As the probability of his primary victory sinks in, legal scholars who see the former president as unfit for office have put forth another way to block a second term: disqualification. Kimberly Wehle is one of those constitutional scholars. She says Trump's actions after the 2020 election ban him from holding future office under a clause of the 14th Amendment. Wehle first wrote about this issue back in January 2022 for Politico Magazine. The legal theory has now caught on with liberal groups, who have filed legal challenges in Colorado and Minnesota, and sent letters to election officials in several other states. Wehle joins Diane on the podcast to talk about what the 14th Amendment actually says, whether it could apply to Donald Trump, and what the consequences of blocking the former president might be for the country.
9/21/202333 minutes, 19 seconds
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Denyce Graves On Creating A More Diverse, Relevant Opera

Mezzo soprano Denyce Graves made her name in the 90s with the roles of Carmen and Delilah. One of only a handful of black opera singers at the time, she toured the most prestigious concert halls around the world. The Grammy winner has also sung at presidential inaugurations, on Sesame Street, and at Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s memorial service. Though Graves continue to perform, she has turned her attention towards giving back – and recently launched the Denyce Graves foundation to both support the next generation of black vocalists – and honor the history of “hidden voices” who have come before.
9/14/202343 minutes, 13 seconds
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The Lingering Effects of the Pandemic on Schools, Students and Learning

School is back in session across the country for the third time since the pandemic began. Though the school day looks much like it did before Covid-19 forced officials to shutter classrooms, the lingering effects of school closures, online learning, and a world turned upside down are becoming clear.   This includes lagging test scores, continued staffing issues, and, according to a new study, a dramatic jump in absences.  Bianca Vazquez Toness is an education reporter for the Associated Press. She has been following the continued impact of the pandemic on young people and schools and says that for many students and families there is still a lot of work to be done.  
9/7/202326 minutes, 53 seconds
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How Hot Is Too Hot? Lessons from a Record-breaking Summer

This July was the hottest month in recorded history. The warmest eight years on the planet have all occurred since 2015. “The rate of warming is fast,” says journalist Jeff Goodell. He has been writing about climate change for more than 20 years, and last month, released a new book titled, “The Heat Will Kill You First: Life and Death on a Scorched Planet.” In it, he explores the impact rising temperatures will have on our environment, our lives and our bodies. “Our understanding and awareness of the dangers of heat are just beginning,” he says.  He adds that this summer’s extreme weather events from wildfires to tropical storms to heat domes, gave us a glimpse into just what those dangers are – and how we can better prepare to face them.
8/31/202339 minutes, 8 seconds
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A GOP Debate And Another Trump Arrest

On Wednesday night eight candidates took the stage to make their appeal to GOP primary voters. But, as the moderators pointed out, the elephant not in the room was Donald Trump. He opted for a one-on-one interview with Tucker Carlson. The former president then traveled to Atlanta to be booked on criminal charges for the fourth time in recent months. Susan Page is Washington bureau chief for USA Today. She joined Diane to discuss what we learned from the debate about the primary, Donald Trump’s grip on the party, and what the GOP’s vision for the country looks like.
8/24/202336 minutes, 12 seconds
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The Prospect of a Third-Party Presidential Bid

North Carolina became the tenth state to recognize No Labels as a political party this week. The non-profit group behind the effort seems to think there is a moderate majority in America that wants to move away from the two-party system. Leaders of the New Labels Party are now toying with offering a presidential ticket in the 2024 election to tap into what they think is a dissatisfaction with the status quo. Veteran journalist Gerald Seib has been reporting on the No Labels movement. “As I go around the country and talk to people, I get asked all the time, why isn’t there a third party?” says Seib, who last year retired from his role as executive Washington editor for the Wall Street Journal. “They say why isn’t there an alternative?” Seib recently published an essay in his former paper titled “Could a Third Party Finally Do It?” He joined Diane to talk about the history of third party candidates – and why this might be the election we see one break through.
8/17/202329 minutes, 18 seconds
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Rep. Jamie Raskin on Trump, Accountability and the Rule of Law

Rep. Jamie Raskin has been among the strongest voices in politics calling for accountability for the violence that occurred on January 6th.  As a House manager during the second impeachment of Donald Trump, Raskin announced the charge of incitement of insurrection against the now-former president. The Maryland congressman went on to serve on the House committee that investigated the events of January 6th and whose work ended in a recommendation of criminal charges against Trump. Now, as Donald Trump faces four counts related to efforts to overturn the 2020 election, Rep. Raskin joins Diane to explain why he feels legal accountability is critical for the health of the country’s democracy. Raskin also discusses his cancer remission and why he decided against a run for the Senate.
8/10/202332 minutes, 56 seconds
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Trying Trump's "Crimes against Democracy"

Special counsel Jack Smith announced charges against Donald Trump this week related to the former president’s efforts to overturn the 2020 election. This is the third time Trump has been indicted in recent months – but many commentators are saying this is the big one. That includes New York University law professor Ryan Goodman, who says the crimes Trump is accused of committing are a direct threat to our government, calling them “democracy crimes.” Goodman, co-editor in chief of Just Security, joined Diane to outline the charges and explain why he thinks only a 2024 election victory can save Donald Trump from conviction.
8/3/202333 minutes, 20 seconds
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Is America getting an F in aging?

Americans are getting older. Much older. In 1900, we lived an average of 38 years. By 2000, our average lifespan had been extended by nearly four decades. And though recent years have seen a downturn in the trend, the 85 and older population is projected to more than double by 2040. “We are not even close to prepared,” says M.T. Connolly, a lawyer and longtime elder rights advocate who in 2011 won a MacArthur Genius Grant for her work in the field. She argues our country’s policies and institutions have not kept pace with our advances in longevity. This mismatch, she says, can result in serious harm for those living into old age, and those who care for them. Connolly joined Diane to discuss her new book, “The Measure of Our Age: The Measure of Our Age: Navigating Care, Safety, Money, and Meaning Later in Life.” In it, she identifies the obstacles that prevent us from maintaining quality of life as we grow old, and what we as individuals – and as a society -- can do about them.
7/27/202341 minutes, 49 seconds
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From the archives: A conversation with legendary book editor Robert Gottlieb

Diane wanted to share a special conversation from the archives, an interview with legendary book editor Robert Gottlieb, who died in June at age 92. Gottlieb worked with many of the best-known writers of the 20th century. On the list of names whose work he made shine was Diane Rehm. Diane remembers him as a masterful editor who was so kind to her –  someone with name recognition in the world of public radio, but no track record as a writer. Gottlieb became one of Diane’s closest friends and confidantes. She says, “he was a genius,” and she was so lucky to have him by her side. Robert Gottlieb joined Diane several times as a guest on the Diane Rehm Show over the years. This is their conversation from September 2016 in which he discussed his memoir, “Avid Reader.”
7/20/202345 minutes, 5 seconds
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Author interview series: Novelist Amy Bloom on the true story of helping her husband die

This month, On My Mind will be sharing conversations from the Diane Rehm Book Club and Author Interview Series. Today we bring you a conversation with novelist Amy Bloom. Diane selected Bloom’s memoir “In Love” as her March 2022 read.  It deals with an issue that is extremely important to Diane – medical aid in dying. Diane has supported the movement to expand access to this life ending option since 2014 when her husband, John Rehm, suffered a painful and prolonged death from Parkinson’s disease. In this book, Bloom tells the story of how she helped her own husband die after a tragic diagnosis. Amy Bloom joined Diane last year to share her experience, an experience she hopes will prompt others to think about what they want at the end of their lives.
7/13/202349 minutes, 23 seconds
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Author interview series: David Ignatius on a career as journalist and spy novelist

This month, On My Mind will be sharing conversations from the Diane Rehm Book Club and Author Interview Series. Today we bring you a conversation with Washington Post foreign affairs columnist – and novelist -- David Ignatius. Diane selected Ignatius’s book “The Paladin” as the November 2022 read. This high-tech thriller explores the question what happens when bad actors move beyond hacking and disinformation campaigns, to creating false realities? As part of the book club event Diane first welcomed a panel of guests to discuss the novel– and the spy thriller genre. You can find a recording of that here. Then David Ignatius joined her on Zoom to talk about what inspired the story, as well as his decades long career moving between fact and fiction.
7/6/202356 minutes, 43 seconds
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Author interview series: Pachinko novelist Min Jin Lee

For the next few weeks, On My Mind will be sharing conversations from the Diane Rehm Book Club and Author Interview series. First up is novelist Min Jin Lee. Diane selected Lee’s novel “Pachinko” as this year’s January read. It tells a generation spanning story that begins in 1910 after Japan’s invasion of Korea. As part of the book club event Diane first welcomed a panel of guests to discuss the novel – and the history that inspired it. You can find a recording of that here. Then she sat down with Min Jin Lee to hear about how a near fatal illness helped launch her writing career – and the decades of research that went into writing “Pachinko.”
6/29/202350 minutes, 53 seconds
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Trump's documents, Clinton's emails and GOP claims of unequal justice

On last week’s podcast, Diane talked to The New Yorker’s Susan Glasser about the indictment of Donald Trump. One listener emailed after listening to the episode, asking for a clear explanation as to how the former president’s behavior compared with other politicians’ handling – or mishandling -- of government secrets. So that’s what Diane is doing – hosting a conversation about Donald Trump’s documents, Hillary Clinton’s emails, and Republican charges of unequal treatment. Diane’s guest, Mary McCord, is the executive director of Georgetown Law’s Institute for Constitutional Advocacy and Protection. She is also a former prosecutor and was Acting Assistant Attorney General for National Security at the U.S. Department of Justice from 2016 to 2017. She explained the next steps in the federal case against former President Trump and why she thinks the charges of unequal treatment don’t add up.
6/22/202340 minutes, 9 seconds
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A twice-indicted Donald Trump: "How's he going to get out of this one?"

Donald Trump was indicted on 37 federal charges related to mishandling of classified documents at an arraignment in Miami this week. A federal indictment is a first for a current or former president of the United States, though Trump was indicted on state criminal charges in New York earlier this year. In that complaint, he allegedly falsified business records related to "hush money" payments. And yet, Donald Trump continues to lead the pack of candidates for the 2024 Republican nomination for president. This has left the rest of the GOP ping-ponging between defending the former president and acknowledging the seriousness of this latest round of charges brought by special counsel Jack Smith. Susan Glasser is a staff writer at The New Yorker and co-author of the book, “The Divider: Trump in the White House, 2017-2021.” She walks Diane through the case against Trump and what it means for his future, as well as what it says about legal accountability in the U.S.
6/15/202330 minutes, 56 seconds
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A very crowded 2024 GOP presidential field

The GOP presidential field continues to balloon. The number of candidates for the 2024 Republican nomination jumped by three this week with former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, former Vice President Mike Pence, and North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum throwing their hats into the race. They join a crowded field that already includes former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley, as well as the state’s senator, Tim Scott. But most eyes remain on former president Donald Trump and Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who many see as Trump’s main competitor. Jonathan Weisman is a political reporter at The New York Times. He has been traveling the country listening to stump speeches and talking to GOP voters. He joins Diane to explain what he has learned, and what the current field says about today’s Republican party.
6/9/202338 minutes, 13 seconds
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Ukraine And Russia: Airstrikes, Drones And A Looming Counteroffensive

This week saw heightened tensions in the ongoing conflict in Ukraine.  A wave of drone strikes hit the Russian capital Tuesday morning, bringing the war to Moscow for the first time. This, as Russian bombs continued to fall on Kyiv in a month that has seen relentless shelling of the city. Meanwhile, the Ukrainian military preps for a promised counteroffensive as it renews its push for NATO membership. David Ignatius is foreign affairs columnist at the Washington Post. He joins Diane to lay out the state of play, and whether this could be a turning point in the war.
6/1/202337 minutes, 15 seconds
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America's Collision Course With The Debt Ceiling

House Speaker Kevin McCarthy says he will send lawmakers home for Memorial Day weekend, despite the fact no deal has been struck to raise the debt limit. This takes the country one step closer to what many describe as going over a fiscal cliff.   The Treasury Department estimates June 1 as the day when the U.S. government will run out of money, triggering potentially catastrophic economic effects. Norm Ornstein joins Diane to explain where the negotiations stand, what option President Biden might have to raise the debt ceiling without Republican support, and how this all could have been avoided in the first place.
5/25/202338 minutes, 55 seconds
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Revisiting The Decision To Drop The Bomb

President Biden travels to Hiroshima this week for a meeting of the G-7.  While there, he plans to acknowledge the devastation wrought by the atomic bomb dropped on the city by U.S. forces, but the White House says he does not plan to make any apologies for America's actions during World War II. Though 78 years have passed since the United States unleashed the power of the atomic bomb on Japan, the weapon continues to cast a shadow over geopolitics. And questions linger as to whether the call to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki was the right one.  Could the war have ended without the use of these nuclear weapons? Could the U.S. have merely tested the bomb on a desert island as a show of force? And was it necessary to drop the second bomb on Nagasaki? Historian and author Evan Thomas explores these questions in a new book titled, “The Road to Surrender.” In it, Thomas goes back in time to tell the story of the leaders grappling with the “morally fraught decisions” about whether to use their new weapon of mass destruction, and how to put an end to a brutal war.
5/18/202339 minutes, 57 seconds
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Understanding This Moment In Artificial Intelligence

With the release of ChatGPT late last year, the power of artificial intelligence had been put into the hands of the general public in ways it had never been before. Suddenly it seemed the future had arrived.  But along with fascination at the ability of the chatbot to mimic human writing, and even human thought, came questions – and concerns – from some of the biggest names in the tech industry.   Cade Metz is a technology reporter for The New York Times and author of the book, “Genius Makers: The Mavericks Who Brought A.I. To Google, Facebook, and the World.” He joined Diane to help explain this moment in A.I. and where it might be headed. 
5/11/202340 minutes, 45 seconds
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NPR’s Mary Louise Kelly On Work, Motherhood, And Almost Having It All

It’s a story familiar to any working parent. You get a call. It’s your child’s school saying they are sick and to come get them. And you can’t because you’re at work. Sometimes it’s just a bump on the head, but sometimes it’s serious. For NPR’s Mary Louise Kelly the call came while flying in a Blackhawk helicopter in Iraq. And it was really serious. She says this was a moment when she “hit a wall” and the choice became clear – her family needed her and that was more important than dropping into war zones. A few months later, she decided to leave her job as Pentagon correspondent at the network. But as her kids grew, and their need for her waned, she went back to the newsroom, and found herself choosing the war zone. Then came her eldest son’s senior year of high school. She realized something was coming to an end and wanted to be there for it. So she once again reshuffled her priorities to savor what she saw as the last months of living under the same roof as a family of four with her husband and two sons. She tells this story in a new book “It. Goes. So. Fast: The Year of No Do-overs,” a memoir about work, family, and almost having it all.
5/4/202338 minutes, 3 seconds
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Tucker Carlson, Don Lemon, And The Future Of Cable News

Tucker Carlson’s firing Monday by Fox News sent shockwaves through the cable news landscape -- and the conservative media world. One of the network’s best-known hosts, Carlson attracted massive audiences and wielded real political power, with a direct line to the White House and Donald Trump, when he was in office. Shortly after word of Carlson’s departure leaked, another cable news star grabbed headlines. Longtime CNN host Don Lemon announced the network cut him loose, just weeks after he made waves with on-air sexist remarks. So what do these high-profile exits say about the state of Fox, CNN, cable news and our information ecosystem more generally? NPR media correspondent David Folkenflik joins Diane to discuss.
4/28/202337 minutes, 47 seconds
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Justice Clarence Thomas And The Ethics Of The Supreme Court

A series of recent reports have pulled back the curtains on possible ethics violations by Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. It started with an investigation by ProPublica that revealed the depth of a relationship between Thomas and a Republican mega-donor. This included decades of lavish gifts and paid vacations – none of which were disclosed. Then came revelations of undercover real estate deals and continued claims of income from a company that had not existed for years. Slate’s Mark Joseph Stern says this fits a pattern of behavior by Thomas, who most recently raised eyebrows when he refused to recuse himself from a January 6th case despite his wife Ginni Thomas’s participation in the “Stop the Steal” rally that day. “This isn’t a conservative problem, this isn’t a liberal problem, this is a Clarence Thomas problem,” Stern tells Diane. He is among a growing number of Court watchers who see this not only as a crisis for Justice Thomas, but for the legitimacy of the Supreme Court itself.
4/20/202335 minutes, 15 seconds
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One Man's "American Ramble": A Journey On Foot From Washington DC To NYC

A 330 mile-walk from Washington, D.C. to New York City. That’s what journalist Neil King decided to embark on in the spring of 2021. The idea started as a whim – but developed into an obsession. Recently recovered from a long bout with esophageal cancer and having watched the country become increasingly divided, King came to see the journey as a pilgrimage of sorts – a tour through our country’s past and present, and an opportunity for him to reconnect with what matters in life. He documented his trip in a new book titled, “American Ramble: A Walk Of Memory And Renewal.”
4/13/202352 minutes, 21 seconds
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Lessons From Wisconsin's Judicial Race, The Year's "Most Important Election"

Voters in Wisconsin went to the ballot box Tuesday in what many have called the most important election of the year. The results of the contest flipped the ideological make-up of the state’s supreme court, sending liberal judge Janet Protasiewicz to the bench. Underscoring the race’s importance, it became the most expensive judicial election in American history, with money flooding in from around the country. Dan Kaufman is the author of the 2019 best-selling book, “The Fall of Wisconsin,” and wrote about the importance of this election in a recent edition of The New Yorker. He joins Diane to explain why all eyes were on Wisconsin this week, and what the results mean for the future of the state – and the nation.
4/7/202336 minutes, 30 seconds
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What We Know About Preventing Gun Violence In The U.S.

This week an assailant entered a church school in Nashville and shot and killed six people. This is just one of more than 130 mass shootings recorded in this country so far this year. Meanwhile, the response in Washington has been predictable -- Democrats have called for an assault weapons ban, Republicans say we need more police. Daniel Webster of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Violence Solutions has been studying the issue for more than 30 years. He joined Diane for a conversation that moves beyond the gridlock to talk about what a public health approach to the issue might look like. Diane also talks to Christina Caron, reporter for the Well section at The New York Times, covering mental health and the intersection of culture and health care. They discuss her project on how the prevalence of gun violence has changed us.
3/30/202346 minutes, 48 seconds
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Donald Trump’s Legal Battles – And Political Future

There will be no “perp walk” for Donald Trump this week. All eyes have been on a Manhattan grand jury since Trump signaled on Saturday an indictment was imminent and forecast his own arrest. Republican leaders came to his defense, complaining the case involving alleged hush money paid to former porn star Stormy Daniels was politically motivated. Meanwhile, the media has plastered the airwaves with speculation about exactly when the indictment would be issued. The New Yorker’s Susan Glasser says this is exactly what Trump wanted – and proves he remains at the center of the fight for the presidency as we move toward the 2024 election.
3/23/202333 minutes, 9 seconds
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From The Archives: A 2008 Conversation With Barbara Walters

In  honor of Women’s History Month, today’s episode of On My Mind is a conversation from the archives with legendary broadcaster Barbara Walters. She died in December at age 93. Walters joined Diane in the studio in 2008, shortly after the release of her memoir, “Audition.” She talked about the challenges of her childhood and her status as a pioneer in the television news industry. Walters told Diane that she was not deliberately “paving the way,” but rather when faced with unfair treatment was simply saying: “You cannot do this to me because I’m a woman.”
3/17/202344 minutes, 42 seconds
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From The Archives: A 1993 Conversation With Jimmy Carter

Former President Jimmy Carter joined Diane as a guest on The Diane Rehm Show 12 times over the years. Their first interview took place in January 1993. Bill Clinton was about to take office and Carter had just published his seventh book, “Turning Point,” chronicling his first campaign for elected office. That day, Diane and Carter covered how he got his start in politics, his relationship with the press, and why he says it sometimes takes more courage to maintain peace than to send troops into battle. Now, with Jimmy Carter receiving hospice care at his home in Georgia, Diane recalled her many conversations with Carter and what made him one of her favorite guests: Over the years I had the chance to interview President Jimmy Carter more than 10 times. We talked about his faith, his rural childhood, his triumphs and challenges as president, and his work as a global humanitarian after his years in the White House. He was always kind, warm, gracious, funny and thoughtful. But what made him such an interesting person to talk to was that he never stopped learning, never stopped evolving. You could see this in how he approached the issues he cared about: housing and homelessness, the peace process in the Middle East, and international health, to name a few. We are happy to share an edited version of their 1993 conversation as this week’s episode of On My Mind. You can find more of his appearances on The Diane Rehm Show here.
3/9/202340 minutes, 54 seconds
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Ukraine, China And Challenges To American Diplomacy

Last week marked the one-year anniversary of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. President Biden traveled to Kyiv, rededicating his support for President Zelensky and the Ukrainian people. But the Biden administration’s focus on the conflict did not end there. This week, U.S. officials told China to stay out of it and warned of sanctions if the Chinese government sent weapons to the Russian army. Meanwhile, at the G-20 summit in India, high-level Russian and American diplomats met briefly for the first time since the war started. David Rothkopf is a foreign policy expert who has worked on international affairs inside and outside of government. On this week’s episode of On My Mind, he talked to Diane about the U.S. role in Ukraine, and how the war is affecting our relationship with China.
3/2/202327 minutes, 51 seconds
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Why One Doctor Says We Should Focus On Living Well, Not Long

Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel is someone who understands how medicine can both save lives and improve the quality of it. That’s why it came as a shock to many when he wrote in 2014 that he would decline all medical treatment after age 75. He explained that here in the U.S., we chase longevity without asking whether those extra years are worth it. “Here is a simple truth that many of us seem to resist: living too long is also a loss,” he said at the time. “It renders many of us, if not disabled, then faltering and declining, a state that may not be worse than death but is nonetheless deprived.” Right now, Dr. Emanuel is 65. He talked to Diane on this week’s episode of On My Mind to revisit his essay – and also debate a topic close to Diane’s heart – medical aid in dying.
2/23/202337 minutes, 26 seconds
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Ron DeSantis Versus The College Board

Last month, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis announced his state would opt out of the new Advanced Placement class in African American studies. DeSantis claimed the class violated a Florida law that limits what a public school can teach about race and diversity. He took this action in spite of the fact the College Board, which designs A.P. classes, seemingly altered the curriculum based on previous DeSantis criticisms. The move is “dangerous,” according to Basil Smikle. Smikle is the director of the public policy program at Hunter College and expert on civil rights and education policy. He joined Diane on this week’s episode of On My Mind to explain why education finds itself yet again at the center of national politics.
2/16/202334 minutes, 5 seconds
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What's Next In The Fight Over Abortion Access In The U.S.

Less than nine months after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v Wade, the anti-abortion movement may be on the brink of another major victory. A judge in Texas is set to rule on a case that could ban abortion pills nationwide. These so-called medication abortions account for more than half of all abortions in the U.S. “We are looking at something that could have sweeping implications for access not only in Republican led states,” says Caroline Kitchener, national reporter for the Washington Post, “but also in California, New York, Washington D.C.” Caroline Kitchener joined Diane on this week’s episode to talk about how the abortion fight has evolved post-Roe and what a ban on pills would mean for pregnant women and providers across the country. 
2/9/202334 minutes, 42 seconds
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Tyre Nichols and A New Push for Police Reform

Mourners gathered this week in Memphis to remember Tyre Nichols, the 29-year-old Black man whose death at the hands of Memphis police officers reignited discussions about race and law enforcement. The Reverend Al Sharpton and Vice President Kamala Harris were among those who attended the memorial, and their message was clear: something must change in our nation’s policing. This week, Diane spoke with Paul Butler, a professor at Georgetown University Law Center and author of the book “Chokehold: Policing Black Men.” He joined her to discuss what effective reform could look like – and how it might be achieved. This call for change has become all too familiar for advocates of police reform. It is a refrain that has been heard after the deaths of Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Breonna Taylor, and most loudly two years ago after the murder of George Floyd. While Butler doubts the federal government will enact the kinds of sweeping protections he sees as necessary to addressing issues of racism in the criminal justice system, he does see hope in the changes being made by local leaders and in some police departments across the country.
2/2/202334 minutes, 51 seconds