What is the story that forced us to dust off the mics, fire up the sound board, and emerge from a 16-month podcasting hiatus? Is it Katie Schide’s epic summer? Dave Roche’s insane Leadville CR? Damian Hall’s effort to combat greenwashing at the top levels of the sport? Multiple world records at 50 miles or six days? No, of course not. It’s Camille doing stupid Camille shit.Beer for this episode: Athletic Brewing Free Wave, Drowned Lands Field and StreamIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

There was a reading assignment for this show…naturally, Phil couldn’t be bothered to do any actual work, so I had the great pleasure of speaking with Doug Mayer about his new book, The Race That Changed Running: The Inside Story of UTMB, out TODAY! An American expat living full-time in Chamonix, Doug works as a journalist and runs his own tour guide company, Run the Alps. The new book (his third) grew out of his own personal history with and curiosity about the race that, like it or not, is at the forefront of the world ultra and trail running scene. We talked about many of the issues and controversies around the race and the UTMB series of races, the influence of Ironman, how the book was written, and also Doug’s recent trip to Innsbrouck to cover the World Trail and Mountain Running Championships. This was a really fun conversation that I think people will find very thought-provoking. Plus, the triumphant return of Desert Island Picks!LinksOrder The Race That Changed Running or Doug’s other booksRun the AlpsDoug’s coverage of the World Trail and Mountain Running ChampionshipsDesert Island Picks: The Odyssey, Hot Rocks by the Rolling Stones, Big Mountain Brewing Wild MountainIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Rich Lockwood has been a mainstay on the PNW trail-running scene for several years, but he grabbed the national spotlight in 2022 with a string of world-class performances, capped by a win at the uber-competitive Run Rabbit Run 100 and a podium spot an the Doi Inthanon 100K (by UTMB, blah blah blah) in his first international event. We caught up with Rich after last month’s return to racing at the newly-reinvigorated Lake Sonoma 50 mile because we wanted to clarify a bunch of crucial information that hadn’t been shared pubicly before, like what cartoon character he identifies with. Let no one accuse us of not asking the tough questions.Links:Follow Rich on IGBeers for this episode: Best Day Brewing Hazy IPA, Two Way Brewing Confusion Saison, Holy Mountain Throne of BloodIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Many of you may not know about Chad Lasater, but you should. He’s the current champion of the Grand Slam of Ultrarunning (having finished the GS in both 2021 and 2022) and after a breakthrough performance at Desert Solstice (his first real 24-hour race) he is currently in position for a spot on the US team for the World Championships this fall. We recorded this in late 2022, shortly after Chad’s awesome run at DS, where he narrowly missed Bob Hearn’s 50+ American Record, but I’ve been too busy to release the show until now—which is great, since Chad has an insanely busy year about to start up. In this episode, we reminisce about the good old days in the late 2010s, when Phil and I were still able to kind of keep up with Chad, and we try to figure out The Secret behind his incredible progress in the sport and how he is able to be running huge PRs into his 50s. Then, it’s time for a very entertaining 20 Questions; Chad has raced 25 100s all over the world and has a million stories to share.Links:Follow Chad on IG - zero posts so far!Beer for this episode: Wicked Weed PerniciousIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Happy New Year! Sneaking in our traditional year-end pod under the wire, my favorite episode every year, debating the Ultrarunners of the Year with recurring guest Jason Mintz, who battled through COVID and came to PLAY! Tons of consensus this year but also some pretty good debate. Phil and I both completely fucked up and somehow both left Matthieu Blanchard out of our top 10, which is a travesty, but otherwise I think we held our own. I had a great time pointing out Phil’s lack of internal consistency which is always fun, and Phil made me defend Camille, which was weird.Beer for this episode: Wolf Hills Trooper’s Alley, Captain Lawrence Clearwater KolschLinksLaura Kline on the 2017 ballotJason Mintz on the 2018 ballotRich Heffron on the 2019 ballot for the women and menMintz again on the 2021 ballotMy final ballot in 2016, 2017, 2018, and 2019Intro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

It took us way too long to have Beastcoast star Riley Brady on the pod. For some reason we waited until they’re getting ready to move to Boulder (like everyone else!) to invite them on. Fresh off a Golden Ticket-winning performance at the Javelina Jundred, Riley joined the show to talk about competition in the sport, The King, karaoke, and much more.Links:Follow Riley on IGBeer for this episode: Treehouse Six, Dancing Grain Harvest SunIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

It’s always a little scary to double the amount of Brits on the show, but it couldn’t have been easier with Pete Mortimer, one of the most accomplished and prolific athletes in our sport today. We talked about some of Pete’s most recent exploits at HURT, Run Rabbit, and Barkley, before tackling all-important questions about hashing, Metallica, and (of course) Marmite.Links:Pete’s websitePete on IG and StravaBeer for this episode: Treehouse Juice Machine, Radiant Pig Save the RobotsIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Despite being only 36, Sabrina Little has been running ultras for over fifteen years. She won the famed Old Dominion 100 mile at only 23 years old; by the time she was 26, she held American records for 24 hours and 200K, and led the US women to a team gold medal with her runner-up finish at the 24-hour world championships. Now with a PhD in philosophy, Sabrina is one of the leading thinkers in the sport of ultrarunning. We welcomed her onto the show after just celebrating the birth of her second child to talk about some serious but mostly silly stuff, ‘cause you know, that’s what we do.Links:Sabrina’s websiteSabrina on IG and Strava“Beer” for this episode: Athletic Oktoberfest, Drowned Lands Harvest Kill Sour IPAIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Oh, dear listener, did we have a podcast for you. Recorded in beautiful Dolby surround sound, it was full of ultra musings, information, insights, wit, beer, witbeer, and other hilarity. We talked about UTMB, Leadville, various other goings on. Yes, it had been a while since we podded, but no matter! It was like riding a proverbial bicycle. Truly, a podcast for the ages.That was our last episode, which was our first episode in several months, and which was waylaid by a faulty USB port. Sadly, it is lost to the sands of time. The workd may never understand how truly Phil and I were at the peak of our podcasting powers.So, we took another six weeks to drown our sorrows and now come to you with this suboptimal crap. Enjoy.Beer for this episode: Athletic Brewing Free Wave, Wicked Weed Freak of NatureIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

The Legend returns to the Pain Cave to recap Western States with “Heat Training,” breaking down the juiciest storylines and biggest takeaways from this past weekend in Auburn. Then, we review our men’s and women’s picks and see who was the best prognosticator this year. Finally, we get Phil’s report from his PR at Manitou’s Revenge and touch on the rest of the results from a busy week in the trail and ultrarunning world.LinksWestern States preview pod (with picks) featuring Cat BradleyBeer for this episode: West Kill Kaaterskill IPA, Athletic Brewing Upside Dawn (use promo code JASONF20 for 20% off your first order)Intro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

One more episode to drop into the pre-Western States hype maelstrom: we sit down with former podium finisher Brittany Peterson, one of the world’s best trail runners and one the pre-race favorites this weekend at the Big Dance, for our world-famous 20 Questions.Links:Brittany’s websiteBrittany on IG and Strava“Beer” for this episode: Synergy Raw Kombucha UnityIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

It’s that time of year again: Western States! The world’s best are gathering in Olympic Valley for the biggest race on the domestic ultrarunning calendar, and we’re breaking down our top picks for the Big Dance with former WS100 champ Cat Bradley and her broken hand. We recorded this last week before all the happenings at Broken Arrow this weekend (though I will say we did a pretty good job of calling out some of the best performers to watch) before diving deep into our top 5 men’s and top 10 women’s picks. Then, Phil and I do a super-quick roundup of some recent Euro and Beastcoast trail news.Beer for this episode: Athletic Brewing Free Wave and Upside Dawn (use promo code JASONF20 for 20% off your first order), Better Booch KombuchaIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

OK, so it’s been a teeny bit longer than a month….what can I say, it’s hard to pin the Legend down these days! And then when you do, his audio quality is shit….but I digress. We let way too much time pass between episodes, so this is less of a “deep dive” and more of a quick recap of a ridiculous amount of ultra results from around the globe, including the last of the Golden Ticket races for the year, new 100K and 100 mile world records, national championships, Madiera, Miwok, Gorge Waterfalls, and much more!Beer for this episode: Athletic Brewing Rice HellesLinksPhil talks on the Inside the Line podcast about his Catskills Winter FKTPrint coverage of his adventure King vs. Hedges at BreakneckIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Whoa, it’s been awhile! Life gets in the way of podcasting sometimes. So psyched to be back with Phil in the Cave for an awesome conversation with our coach, SWAP cofounder, podcaster, author, and world-class trail runner David Roche. In his second appearance on the show, we talk with David about goal setting and the mental approach to racing, before we hit the classic 20 questions topics: you know, Vonnegut, streaking, Michelle Obama, the usual.Links:Team SWAPThe SWAP Adventure PodcastOur first interview with David…and his wife Megan’s 20 questions episodeBuy The Happy RunnerDavid’s InstagramBeers for this episode: Athletic Brewing Run Wild, Captain Lawrence Orbital Tilt, Hoplark Calm One HopteaIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

West Coast trail goddess Dani Moreno gives us the lowdown on her breakthrough 2021 season before answering twenty stupid questions about cheese, ABBA, Tim Allen, and much more.Links:Dani’s websiteBeers for this episode: Ober Creek Sundial, Ommegang Neon Rainbows, Kyla Ginger Tangerine KombuchaIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Wow! One hundred episodes! I couldn’t think of a better way to celebrate the centennial than with one of my perennial favorite episodes, debating the mens’ and womens’ Ultrarunners of the Year. I was once again thrilled to be included on the voting panel for this award. And as usual, I brought in some outside help to set me straight on my voting before the ballot needed to be submitted this week. (I’ve basically stopped blogging, so you won’t see all the changes I wound up making to what we discussed; the main one being my including Marisa Lizak in the top 5 for the women after I called Paul to help me better contextualize her Sparthalon performance.) Phil and I were once again joined by the great Jason Mintz, reprising his role from his initial appearance in 2018, as we talk about the top 10 men and women for the year, the top five performances, and I finally let loose on Camille.Beer for this episode: Alchemist Heady Topper, Definitive FloatLinksLaura Kline on the 2017 ballotJason Mintz on the 2018 ballotRich Heffron on the 2019 ballot for the women and menMy final ballot in 2016, 2017, 2018, and 2019Intro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

TOO. MUCH. WHISKEY.Links:Previous episodes we referred to on this show:Jason GreenTom KaplanJoe UhanMaggie GuterlAJWBeers for this episode: Industrial Arts Tools of the Trade, Sloop Juice Bomb, Yard Owl Rye Saison, High West Double Rye WhiskeyIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Phil and I sit down with repeat guests and GFOPs Laura Kline and Jason Mintz to drink our sorrows away as we livecast the lotteries for the Western States 100 and Hardrock 100. Spoiler alert: Phil and I don’t get in. But a bunch of people who we know did, so that was kind of fun. This one goes off the rails as I get progressively more intoxicated, so tune in for that. (Split into two parts due to what is really criminally ridiculous length.)Links:Previous episodes we referred to on this show:Jason GreenTom KaplanJoe UhanMaggie GuterlAJWBeers for this episode: Industrial Arts Tools of the Trade, Sloop Juice Bomb, Yard Owl Rye Saison, High West Double Rye WhiskeyIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

One of the most fun episodes we’ve ever done. Jason Green, the founder of the Yeti Trail Cult and the RD of the Yeti 100, sits down in the 20 Questions hot seat to discuss Appalachia, skateboarding, ghosts, and Tyler Perry. Also: FIREBALL!Links:Yeti Trail CultBeers for this episode: Industrial Arts Torque Wrench, Sloop Juice Bomb, Three Taverns TeardrinkerIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Fall is in the air…leaves are falling, pumpkin spice is showing up in beer for some reason, and we are back for another episode of TMIU. We start with the epic performances at Big’s Backyard Ultra, where the great Harvey Lewis crushed the world record for the format, and discuss whether experience is a benefit or a hindrance in this discipline. Then we tour the world to chat about Spartathlon, Run Rabbit Run, the Rut, TDG, and much more. Also: Taggart retires?Beers for this episode: Alchemist Luscious, Rushing Duck Irrational NumbersIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale0 Likes

It’s been a few years since Matt Flaherty was dominating the roads and trails at the 50 mile and 100K distances, but he came back in a big way this summer when he crashed the Anton vs. Ian show at Leadville with an out-of-nowhere second place finish in his 100-mile debut. In the lates installment of 20 Questions, Matt talks about his training, valuing process over results, tackling environmental issues locally, and much more.Links:This is the article Matt mentioned about the Old Ghost Ultra.Some of Matt’s music on SoundCloud Insta: @MattAFlahertyStravaEnvironmental Resilience Institute at Indiana UniversityBeers for this episode: Athletic Brewing Closer by the Mile, Run Wild, and Whirlpool Pale AleIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Did you forget about Cat Bradley? The former WS100 champ and podium finisher at Leadville may have been out of the spotlight during the pandemic, but she is on the brink of returning to the pinnacle of the sport in a big way. We talked to Cat about her recovery from the surgery that kept her from racing in 2020, her return to the trails this summer, her early-career struggles, the next Lord of the Rings, and more.Links:Cat’s websiteInstagramThe newest addition to the Boundless Coaching familyBeers for this episode: Oskar Blues Mama’s Little Yella Pils, Reed’s Strongest Ginger BeerIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

It’s time you got to know Zack Beavin, an East Coast speedster who in the last couple of years has been shown to be a rising star in the ultrarunning world. An impressive 5:03 in his debut 50-miler at Tunnel Hill last year may have been overshadowed by another young phenom’s debut 100 mile performance, but his performance at this spring’s Strolling Jim—an amazing 3:50 for 40+ miles, breaking a 30-year-old CR held by Andy Jones (an Olympic marathoner and former national record-holder at distances from 50K to 100 miles)—stamped him as a force to be reckoned with among the wave of young ultra phenoms. We grabbed Zack for twenty questions about whiskey, bananas, Oreos, and many other things a growing body needs.Links:Beavin Endurance, Zack’s coaching serviceInstagramTwitterBeers for this episode: Athletic Free Wave Hazy IPA, Oskar Blues Can-O-Bliss Hazy IPAIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

What happens when you don’t do a recap pod for the two busiest months on the ultrarunning calendar? You need a MEGAPOD to catch up on everything you’ve missed. First, Paul Kentor (aka SteelTownRunner) drops by to bring his unparalleled fund of knowledge to bear on Sania Sorokin’s astounding 24-hour world record run. Then, it’s a blitzkreig of ultra and trail news and results, from Chamonix to Leadville to Silverton and everything in between.Beers for this episode: Lawson’s Little Sip, Sloop Juice BombIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

We’re heading back into the Tennessee heat for a recap of an epic year at the Last Annual Vol State 500K. We weren’t sure anything could top Francesca Muccini’s incredible CR performance from last year, until 2020 runner-up and former Pain Cave guest Bob Hearn came back to Tennessee and obliterated both the crewed and screwed course records while running without a crew. Bob agreed to a return visit to the Pain Cave where he was joined by women’s screwed champ (breaking her own CR in the process) Beverley Anderson-Abbs, as we discussed this year’s race, their approaches to walking, their lowest points, corn dogs, and, you know, searching for enlightenment.Links:Old episodes: 20Q with Bob, LAVS 2020 with Phil and FrancescaBob’s blogBev’s recent appearance on the UR PodBeers for this episode: Other Half DDH Mosaic + Galaxy IPA, Mikkeller Subway Mosaic IPA, Dogfish Head 60 Minute IPAIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Summer is heating up (or as Phil would say, “hotting up”) and we’re here to cool you down with a fire hose blast of ultrarunning news, including recaps from Western States and Manitou’s Revenge. We tackle all the big storylines coming out of Auburn, including our biggest surprises, guttiest performances, and how we did with our pre-race picks. We also pour one out for the 24-hour world championships, mispronounce a bunch of French names, and engage in some quickly dated (and wrong) speculation about Taggert’s next race.Beers for this episode: Other Half DDH Small Citra Everything, Zero Gravity Green State LagerIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

One last episode before the Big Dance in Auburn! No beer for this morning pod, but The Legend is back as always to discuss the fallout from record attempts at Six Days in the Dome, plus our thoughts on the folks to watch this weekend at Western States. Intro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Just over a week out from Western States, it was a real honor to have returning top-10 runners on both the mens’ and womens’ side in the Pain Cave to talk about the Big Dance. Clare Gallagher is the defending champion at the nation’s premier ultramarathon, and Kyle Pietari has four times placed in the top 10. The two Colorado residents joined us to talk about their recent trip to the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness in northern Minnesota, where they helped to crew and pace Alex Falconer to complete the first ever crossing of the preserve on foot. We spoke about their efforts to protect this wilderness and to bring awareness to the negative environmental impacts of proposed mining operations in the area. Then, we talked about this year’s fantastic fields at Western States and how these two legends of the sport will approach the race. Finally it was Twenty Questions time, talking tapers, books, Instagram, and more. Links:Alex’s pre-run summary of the Boundary Waters Traverse project, and his recap of the runFKT.com: The Boundary Waters TraverseSave the Boundary Waters: urge your representative to support the bill to protect the Boundary WatersAlso here; from this site specifically about the runBeers for this episode: Athletic Brewing Free Wave, Pawley’s Island Big Sandy BeachesIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

The pride of the Cornell Big Red machine and perhaps the most versatile runner on the MUT scene in the past 15 years, Max King is one of my running heroes and now one of my all-time favorite guests. Know how many people have won both the World Mountain Running Championship and the World 100K Championship? One guy. That’s the list. But he’s also qualified for the Olympic Trials five times by my count (twice in the steeple, three times in the marathon) and has represented the US at the World XC Championships four times. We caught up with Max after he just got back from the Salomon young athlete training camp to talk about why it’s taken him so long to get back to the 100 mile distance, his goals for Western States, adventure racing, longevity, and of course, the Dining Hall Classic.Links:Famous enough to have a Wikipedia page!Max’s trail running campsWorld Athletics profileInstagramThis older interview gives you a little beta on the DHCBeers for this episode: Foreign Objects Mind Body Light Sound, Maine Beer Co. Lunch, Deschutes Teeny Hazy Ale Intro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

A true legend of the sport joined us in The Pain Cave this week. The great Andy Jones-Wilkins dropped by to offer his perspective on the state of the sport following the big announcement of the new partnership between UTMB and the Ironman Group. We also talked briefly about our excitement for the upcoming Western States 100 before we dove into 20 Questions to discuss skeleton, pierogis, and the best way to fertilize a tree.Links:Famous enough to have a Wikipedia page!AJW’s Tap RoomInstagramCoaching for CTSBeers for this episode: Lawson’s Little Sip, Jackie O’s Who Cooks For You?, Sierra Nevada Hazy Little Thing Intro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

For the first time ever on the pod, two Brits are on the mic as we welcome in the amazing Beth Pascall. A top 10 finisher at both Western States and UTMB, Beth has to be considered one of the favorites for the big dance next month following her dominant win at the Canyons 100K. We talk about her win at Canyons and being back on the WS course again, before diving into 20 Questions to learn about her background, lobsters, and what she has in common with the Stanford mascot.Links:Beth’s websiteBeth runs for SalomonFollow her on IGWe referenced her appearance on the Pyllars pod multiple timesBeers for this episode: Drowned Lands Soft Terra, Yard Owl Grisette Intro music: “God Save the Queen” by QueenOutro music: “God Save the Queen” by the Sex PIstols

Racing is back! And so are we, IN PERSON to drink some beer and throw out some lukewarm takes about the latest happenings around the ultra world. We dive deep on the big announcement on UTMB and Ironman, dissect results from Canyons and Jackpot, and discuss 100-mile world records on both the track and the treadmill. Also, I insult 200-mile trail races.LinksUTMB + IMBeer for this episode: Westkill Brewing CreeksideIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Another awesome guest joins the pod as we welcome in neuroscientist, Skyrunning champion, author, and North Face athlete Hillary Allen into the Pain Cave for the latest episode of Twenty Questions. We talk about Hillary’s new book, Out and Back, which chronicles her recovery from a near-fatal accident while racing in Tromso, Norway, before turning our attention to the usual 20Q fare: you know, unicorns, chafing, and things of that nature.Links:Hillary’s websiteHillary on IGBuy the book!Beers for this episode: Drowned Lands Deep Terra, Jackie O’s Mystic MamaIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

It’s our second-ever EMERGENCY POD, and we finally wore down Paul Kentor (a.k.a SteelTownRunner) to come on the show and share his unparalleled fund of ultrarunning knowledge with us. We discuss Des’ amazing (if not unexpected) performance, the history of the road 50K as a competitive event (on the world scene not much), the historical context of this performance, and where we’d want to see Des go next.LinksAmong many other articles about this, here’s irunfar’s coverage of the WRSteelTownRunner on Twitter and IGBeer for this episode: Industrial Arts Wrench

It’s been a LONG time since our last TMIU episode, so here goes! Phil is back in the Pain Cave to discuss all things ultrarunning, including his return to racing at GDR, results from the first two GT races of the year, the Barkley Marathons, and the Ohio Backyard ultra. (We touched on the Carbon X2 record attempt in February’s shoe draft episode, so decided to skip it here.) We also talk about the changes to the Western States lottery rules, Taggart vs. the haters, Koop vs. everybody, and much more.LinksKoop’s IG postWS lottery changesOur interview with Joe Uhan about the WS lotteryOur interview with Taggart VanEttenBeer for this episode: Lawson’s Sip of Sunshine, Pawley’s Island Brewing Co. Big Sandy BeachesIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

We’re back on the 20 Questions beat with #beastcoast stud and US National Snowshoe team member Cole Crosby. We talk to Cole about his recent run across the entire length of New Jersey, plus ducks, horses, motivation, pizza, and much more.Links:Cole’s business, Cresting the SummitCole on IGBeers for this episode: Lawson’s Sip O’ Sunshine, Woodstock Brewing Mega Super Pixelated DIPA, Jackie O’s Mystic Mama, Ommegang Abbey AleIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

We’ve drafted ultrarunning fantasy teams, we’ve drafted the elements of the perfect aid station, and now we’re drafting the perfect shoe closet. Bryon Powell of iRunFar and Ian Golden of the Trails Collective join Phil and I for a brief state-of-the-sport discussion before we select our favorite all-time shoes in each of eight different categories. Charge your flux capaciters and gas up your DeLoreans, we’re taking you back to 1993…and even a little farther.Vote here for the winner of our inaugural shoe draft!Beers for this episode: Equilibrium DHop 28, 4 Noses El Jefe Caliente, Alchemist Focal BangerLinksiRunFarThe Trails CollectiveRed Newt RacingIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

The defending champ at Transgrancanaria and the newly minted holder of the Wonderland Trail FKT, Kaytlyn Gerbin faces her toughest test: the 20 Questions hot seat. We talk about her favorite races, snowboarding, watermelons, weird costumes, and much more.Links:Instagram: @kaytlyn_gFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/kaytlyng/Strava: https://www.strava.com/pros/kaytlyn_gTwitter: https://twitter.com/kaytlyn_gerbinBeer for this episode: Sixpoint Sweet ActionIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

We start the new year off right with a visit to the Pain Cave from Taggart VanEtten. Who is that, you ask? He’s the triathlete-turned-marathoner who shocked the ultrarunning world with an outstanding 12:19 win at the Tunnel Hill 100 in his ultramarathon debut. Taggart tells us about how his tri background helps him as an ultrarunner, why he decided to run Tunnel Hill this year, his training and nutrition, and more. LinksFollow Taggart on InstagramTaggart’s blogDesert Island Picks: How Bad Do You Want It by Matt Fitzgerald, Tickets to my Downfall by Machine Gun Kelly, Miller LiteIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Time to bid goodbye to the possibly the strangest year in ultrarunning history. Phil and I do a quick recap of recent results before we welcome back the great Dylan Bowman to look back at the yar that was and to make our picks for Ultrarunner of the Year, Performance of the Year, FKT of the Year, and much more.Links:DBo’s websiteDBo on the Pain CaveDBo’s podcast, The Well (soon to be rebranded as Pyllars)Beers for this episode: Other Half DDH Monteuka + Galaxy, Peak Organic Slim Hazy, Great Notion Cloud Forest, Zero Gravity Little Wolf, Jackie O’s Cool BeansIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

The pride of the #Beastcoast, Patrick Reagan, joins us in the Pain Cave for another edition of 20 questions. We talk about his favorite race, why he like racing in hot weather, playing guitar, racing 100s, why watermelon is awesome, and much more.Links:Follow Patrick on InstagramPatrick’s websiteInterested in being coached by Patrick?Beers for this episode: Jackie O’s Who Cooks For You, Peak Organic Slim HazyIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Phil gets to fanboy out as we welcome in defending Hardrock champ Sabrina Stanley to the Pain Cave to sit on the 20 Questions hot seat. We cover Sabrina’s exploits on Nolan’s 14 this summer, her favorite race and toughest race (hint: they’re the same race), which one of us won the Ultrarunning Fantasy Draft by selecting her (hint: it was me), and more.Links:Follow Sabrina on InstagramThe truth will out: the Women’s Ultrarunning Fantasy DraftBeers for this episode: Equilibrium/Great Notion Juice = Juice, Foreign Objects Ritual ColorsIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

British ultrarunner Kristian Morgan had to forego a second attempt on the Appalachian Trail this summer due to the travel restrictions in place because of the pandemic. Instead, he stuck close to home and took on the longest trail in the UK, the 630-mile South West Coast Path, taking aim at the four-year-old record set by the great Damian Hall. Kristian joined us for the third time in the Pain Cave to talk about his experiences on the trail, training during the pandemic, running with gratitude, and more. LinksKristian’s pre-AT interview and post-AT interviewKristian’s website and podcastSouth West Coast Path FKTIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Trail running beast Zoë Rom is the Associate Editor of Trail Runner magazine and the host of the DNF Podcast—a show about “failure in life and running…about unfinished business, and the unglamorous work of picking yourself up, dusting yourself off, and moving on.” Zoë joins us to talk about failure vs. hardship, overcoming fear, practicing self-compassion, FKTs, sled dog racing, and more. Also, how to say “hedgehog” in Italian. LinksZoë’s website and coaching siteSocial media: Strava, IG, Facebook, TwitterDesert Island Picks: The Elegance of the Hedgehog by Muriel Barbery, Songs by Adrianne Lenker, Nutella, Outer Range Brewing Co. Meadows IPAIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

In the past two years, SoCal native Jake Jackson has progressed from a solid competitor on the southwestern trail-running scene to a top-10 finish at the 24-hour World Championships. Jake joins us on the show to talk about his meteoric rise to becoming one of the top US runners ever at 24 hours, how he balances his training with full-time work and family obligations, why he started working with a coach, battling imposter syndrome, and more.LinksFollow Jake on InstagramJake runs for rabbit, Spring Energy, XOSkin, Squirrel’s Nut Butter, and Prevail BotanicalsDesert Island Picks: Born to Run by Christopher McDougall, S&M by Metallica, Rancid by Rancid, Miguel’s Jr. burritos, Newcastle Brown AleThanks to Himalaya Botanique for sponsoring this episode of the Pain Cave. Himalaya Botanique— the toothpaste that’s free from fluoride, SLS, and artificial colors and flavors, but bursting with foam and flavor! Enjoy 20% off your purchase of Himalaya toothpaste, using discount code PAINCAVE20 at Amazon. To learn more about Himalaya Botanique and Ayurvedic wellness visit Himalayausa.comIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Are you ready to rock? Author, music journalist ,and trail runner Tony Fletcher makes his face-melting debut in the Pain Cave. We talk about how he cut his teeth in the British punk scene of the late 1970s, becoming a de facto professional journalist at fourteen, the Who vs. the Stones, trail running in the Catskills, traveling around the world, Crystal Palace, and more.LinksTony’s website, where you can find info on his books and his blogOne Step Beyond, Tony’s excellent podcastInstagram and TwitterDesert Island Picks: A Short History of Nearly Everything by Bill Bryson, Born to Run by Christopher McDougall, Tommy by The Who, Peanut Butter Clif Bars, Gipsy Hill Hepcat

Nice! The Legend is back for a “This Pandemic in Ultrarunning” update, as we check in on some of the recent trail and ultra races starting to every so slowly come back on line. We cover results from the Bear 100, IMTUF, Yeti, and Stumpjump and discuss our own returns to racing at Cat’s Tail and 3 Days at the Fair. Plus, we discuss qualification for the Golden Trail finale, the starting field for Hardrock 2021, miniature goats, and more.Beer for this episode: Treehouse Julius, Lagunitas DayTime IPAIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

It’s a Some Work, All Play party in the Pain Cave this week as we welcome physician, epidemiologist, coach, author, and five time US trail running champ Megan Roche onto the 20 Questions hot seat. We talk about Megan’s favorite race, her dream running partner, the loss of the North Face 50, how to cook a scoby, and much more.Links:Some Work, All Play (Team SWAP)The SWAP Adventure PodcastMegan’s book, The Happy Runner (and our interview with co-author and husband David)Beers for this episode: Athletic Brewing Oktoberfest, Alchemist Focal Banger, GT’s Trilogy KombuchaIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Continuing with our 20 questions format, and fulfilling our goal of interviewing the entire podium from the Last Annual Vol State, we welcomed Bob Hearn into the Pain Cave and onto the 20Q hot seat. Since turning 50, Bob has become one of the best and most consistent 24-hour and multi-day runners in the US, holding national age-group records at 24 and 48 hours. We chat with Bob about his favorite races, his most embarrassing moment, training, diet, peaking, and more.Links:Bob’s blogBeers for this episode: Treehouse Brewing Green IPA, Half Acre Navaja DIPAThanks to Himalaya Botanique for sponsoring this episode of the Pain Cave. Himalaya Botanique— the toothpaste that’s free from fluoride, SLS, and artificial colors and flavors, but bursting with foam and flavor! Enjoy 20% off your purchase of Himalaya toothpaste, using discount code PAINCAVE20 Amazon. To learn more about Himalaya Botanique and Ayurvedic wellness visit Himalayausa.comIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

This week we’re trying out a new format that we’ll be using from time to time: Twenty Questions, where we’ll attempt to find out everything you never wanted to know about your favorite ultrarunners, or get to know someone you may not know all that much about. For our inaugural attempt at this we welcome in Beastcoast marathon and ultra stud Ellie Pell. If you’re not familiar with Ellie, maybe you should be. Despite her youth she’s had a bevy of top-flight performances on both the road and trail, including a podium finish at JFK and a top-15 at the TNF championships, and she ran in the Olympic Marathon Trials in Atlanta in February. Find out how she approaches training, her go-to post-race meal, which Olympic sport she wishes she could compete in, and much more.Links:Instagram and TwitterEllie’s website and podcast (IG: @hamstringsandheartstrings) The Trails Collective Interview Series (website) (YouTube) (podcast) (IG: @the_trails_collective)Ellie on URPBeers for this episode: Other Half Baby Diamonds, Zero Gravity Little WolfThis episode sponsored by Let’sGetChecked. Use the promo code PAINCAVE30 for 30% off all services. Please support our great sponsors!Intro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

In what SteelTownRunner describes as one of the greatest multiday performances ever, full stop, Francesca Muccini just obliterated the women’s course record at the Vol State 500K, out-dueling pre-race favorite Bob Hearn in winning the race outright for the second time in the second-fastest performance ever at this insane event. Phil and I welcomed Francesca into the Pain Cave to learn about her background and get the story of her incredible run.Links:Professor MucciniLAVSPhil’s story from Vol State on our previous episodeGreg Armstrong’s recap of Francesca’s amazing runBob Hearn’s LAVS race reportDesert Island Picks: Zibaldone by Giacomo Leopardi, Direct Hits by the Killers, HeinekenBeers for this episode: Equilibrium Brewing Wavelength, Sixpoint CrispThis episode sponsored by Let’sGetChecked. Use the promo code PAINCAVE30 for 30% off all services. Please support our great sponsors!Intro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "Tennessee Jed” by the Grateful Dead

Maybe you don’t know why we call him the Legend. THIS IS WHY. Phil Vondra is back in the co-pilot’s chair for this episode, as we blow through a couple of notable FKTs and pay lip service to the gradual restarting of the 2020 race schedule. Then, we dive into the main event—a recap of Phil’s incredible, epic, dare I say LEGENDARY performance at this month’s Last Annual Vol State, an insane 500KM race across Tennessee. Phil gives us the scoop on racing in 100+ degree heat, sleeping on park benches, surviving on ice cream bars and something called Sun Drop, and much, much more.Links:LAVSApparently the hottest FKT route in the world right nowDesert Island Picks: Lord of the Rings by JRR Tolkien, The White Album by the Beatles, Other Half Citra EverythingBeers for this episode: Equilibrium Brewing Fractal Lab, Yard Owl Chouette D’OrThis episode sponsored by Let’sGetChecked. Use the promo code PAINCAVE30 for 30% off all services. Please support our great sponsors!Intro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

As we discussed in our recent podcast with Yassine Diboun, the ultrarunning community is generally a very welcoming one—but one in which diversity still continues to lag. While the sport strives for inclusivity, only about a third of ultrarunners are female. We we very happy to be joined in the Pain Cave by elite ultrarunner Aliza Lapierre, who called in from the Northeast Kingdom to discuss the gender gap in ultraunning and steps that we can take to open the sport up to more female athletes. The, the legendary Phil Vondra jumped in with us for our most recent draft episode, as we take turns selecting the elements of a great aid station.Links:Aliza on InstagramTrail SistersDesert Island Picks: Runner: A Short Story About a Long Run by Lizzy HawkerBeers for this episode: Equilibrium /Trillium Brewing Climb the Ballmer Peak, Zero Gravity Little WolfThis episode sponsored by Ladder Sport, thanks for their supportIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Without much happening on the racing front over the past several months, many athletes have been venturing in to the world of chasing “Fastest Known Times”—that is, identifying a route and trying to complete it faster than anyone ever has. Legendary trail runner Ben Nephew has been putting up FKTs all over the northeast for years, including classic New England routes like the Presidential Traverse and the Pemigewasset Loop. At the time of our recording a few weeks ago, Ben had more registered FKTs than anyone else (he has since been surpassed by Jason Hardrath). Ben joined the show to talk about the attraction of FKTs, some of his favorite routes, some he’d like to try, and what he thinks the future holds for the scene.LinksFastestKnownTime.comBen’s routesDesert Island Picks: Why Zebras Don’t Get Ulcers by Robert Sapolsky, The Unforgettable Fire by U2, Michael David Petite PetitIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

In the midst of the ongoing protests against police brutality and systemic inequality, the great Yassine Diboun stops into the Pain Cave to discuss his experience as a minority athlete in an overwhelmingly white majority sport. One of the most accomplished ultrarunners in the US, Yassine brings us his unique perspective on growing up as the target of racism, how that contributed to his struggles with addiction, barriers to minority participation in trail running, and what we can do to help build a more tolerant and equitable community.LinksYassine’s recent article in Trail Runner magazineWy’east Wolfpack and youth trail running campIf you’d like to donate to help sponsor a scholarship for a camper, contact hereDesert Island Picks: The Big Book, Live From Mars by Ben Harper and the Innocent Criminals, Brew Dr. Kombucha Circulatory BlendIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

The pandemic has altered our lives in myriad ways—as runners, as sports fans, and obviously just in our daily interactions. To sort this all out, I was very happy to be joined by my good friend and fellow Cornell XC/track alumnus, elite triathlete Dr. Keith Strudler, the director of the School of Communication and Media at Montclair State University. We discussed how COVID-19 will change sports media, the long-term impact on the collegiate sports landscape—particularly for XC and track programs, youth sports, virtual races, what he’s been missing most during the pandemic, and much more.Links:Keith at Montclair StateKeith’s hilarious new podcast, SportishThe Voice of Sport on WAMCDesert Island Picks: DQ Heath Bar Blizzard, Three Imaginary Boys by the Cure, March of the Penguins by Luc Jacquet, ZimaThis episode sponsored by Ladder Sport, thanks for their supportIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

If you’re in the music business—or you’ve listened to the radio in the Hudson Valley or New York City in the past thirty years—you probably know the name Jimmy Buff. But you may not know that in addition to being a longtime DJ, producer, and program director, “Buff” is also an accomplished ultrarunner and triathlete. He and I sat down for a fascinating look back at his career in radio and sport. We talked about how he got his start at the legendary WNEW-FM in NYC, counter-programming Howard Stern, the importances and challenges of independent commercial and community radio, politics, the connection between addiction and endurance sports, and much more.Links:Radio KingstonDesert Island Picks: A Soldier of the Great War by Mark Helprin; Blood on the Tracks by Bob DylanIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Continuing our quarantine-friendly series of running guests who are famous for things other than running, I was ecstatic to welcome Andy Greenwald into the Pain Cave this week. Andy got his start as a music critic for Spin magazine in the late 1990s, then became both a respected TV critic and a writer on TV shows such as Legion and Cat’s Cradle in the 2010s. Now he has won acclaim as the creator and showrunner of Briarpatch, his ten-episode adaptation of a classic noir thriller. I was thrilled to have Andy on the show to talk about podcasting, interviewing, running a TV show, and his newfound love of running.Links:Briarpatch on USAAndy and Chris’ podcast, The Watch Andy’s books: Nothing Feels Good and Miss MiseryDesert Island Picks: Tusk by Fleetwood Mac; Chinaman’s Chance by Ross Thomas, Dance Dance Dance by Haruki Murakami, Bordersnakes by James Crumley; Herr’s Sour Cream and Onion potato chips; Trumer PilsnerIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Despite Phil’s abominable behavior during our womens’ draft (for which he was roundly criticized in the media and penalized by the voters), he was invited back, along with GFOP Rich Heffron, to select our mens’ ultrarunning fantasy teams. And this time, the Legend did not disappoint! Take a listen and let us know who had the best performance in this year’s fantasy draft.Beers for this episode: Ithaca Every Day Haze and Flower Power; Equilibrium Wavelength, Energy Equals, and Super Fractal Julia SetIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Quarantine content continues! Now that you’ve had enough time to plow through our favorite running movies, you should have plenty of time to tackle the reading list we’re about to assign you. I’m joined by my great friend, coach and author Joe Puleo, possibly the most well-read person I’ve ever met, to go through our favorite books about running. In Part II, we cover our favorite biographies, memoirs, science/training books, and running fiction.LinksPart I - narrative non-fiction booksJoe’s first appearance on the showJoe’s book, Running Anatomy (blurbed by yours truly!)Hear Joe’s presentation at an upcoming virtual NSCA conference

Quarantine content continues! Now that you’ve had enough time to plow through our favorite running movies, you should have plenty of time to tackle the reading list we’re about to assign you. I’m joined by my great friend, coach and author Joe Puleo, possibly the most well-read person I’ve ever met, to go through our favorite books about running. In Part I, we tackle our favorite category: non-fiction running books.LinksJoe’s first appearance on the showJoe’s book, Running Anatomy (blurbed by yours truly!)

The cure for your quarantine blues! No, races aren’t happening right now, but that’s not gonna stop us from bringing the concept of fantasy sports to the world of ultrarunning. I’m joined by the legendary Phil Vondra and the great Laura Kline to draft our women’s ultrarunning fantasy teams—one runner in each of twelve different events….and the hilarity (and the outrage) ensues. Take a listen and let us know who you think has the best team. The winner gets beer, so it’s important!Beer for this episode: Equilibrium/Civil Society Sweep the Leg; Founders Rubaeus; Battery Steele FlumeIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

There’s not a ton of news going on in sports these days, and the trail and ultrarunning world is no exception. And I don’t have the emotional bandwidth to turn this podcast into a stream of stories about how we’re all dealing with isolation. Instead, we’re going to try to branch out a little bit; one avenue I wanted to explore was interviewing some runners who are better known for things other than running. And I was absolutely ecstatic to kick off this series by snagging one of my favorite podcasters to come on the show and talk a little shop. JE Skeets is the co-host of No Dunks, a daily NBA podcast on The Athletic. This is the third iteration of the show that he and his friends Tas Melas, Jason Doyle, Trey Kerby, and Leigh Ellis, have had since the Podcasting Stone Age in 2005. Prior to this year, they produced a daily show on NBA TV called The Starters. I sat down with Skeets to talk about being one of the pioneers of podcasting, his background in high school hoops, his newfound love for running, which NBA players would make good marathoners, and more.Links:No Dunks podcastSkeets on IG (and the pod)Desert Island Picks: Infinite Jest by David Foster Wallace, A-Sides Win by Sloan, Wrecking Bar Brewpub Beer Flavored Vienna LagerIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

The Legend is back!! From a socially appropriate distance of course. As it’s been about six weeks since our last episode, we started with an abbreviated version of This Month in Ultrarunning, recapping results from the (hopefully temporary) end of the ultra season—including the Olympic Trials marathon, the Caumsett 50K, the Pioneer Spirit 50 mile, and Transgrancanaria—as well as recapping the Quarantine Virtual Backyard Ultra and some FKT news. Then it’s time for our top ten running movies of all time (40:30)!Huge thanks to Podcorn for sponsoring this episode. Explore sponsorship opportunities and start monetizing your podcast by signing up here: https://podcorn.com/podcasters/Beer for this episode: Equilibrium Fluctuation, Alchemist Focal BangerIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

The 2020 ultrarunning season is in full swing, and we’re back after a two-month hiatus to bring you all the news that’s fit to discuss, and also a bunch that probably isn’t. The Legend and I start off by discussing the surprising cancellation of the North Face Endurance Challenge series (4:00) and the Sage/Koop Twitter beef (16:00) before our whirlwind tour of results from around the globe in the first two months of the year (26:00), including the early-season Golden Ticket races, the US road 100 mile championships, Tarawara, the Spine, and much more. (Unfortunately at one point I mistakenly say that Drew Holman is from the East Coast. Not sure what that’s about.)Beer for this episode: Other Half/Equilibrium Lab Daydream, Start Line Brewing Hop LoadIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Joe Uhan has been a mainstay of the West Coast ultra world since he burst onto the scene with competitive finishes at Chuckanut and the AR50 in 2011. Since then, he’s gone on to record top 10s at Western States, Lake Sonoma, Bandera, Waldo, and many other elite races. A well-respected coach and physical therapist, Joe has been involved with the Western States 100 ever since he first paced the race over a decade ago, as an athlete, volunteer, and therapist. Now as a coach, he has seen his athletes struggle with the frustration of the WS lottery—and he thinks he has a solution. In this episode, we talk about how Joe came to be involved with Western States, the formation of the current iteration of the WS lottery, the problems of the compounding ticket system, “premature” and “stale” lottery entrants, “lottery fatigue” and second-order effects, and how moving to a multi-tiered, non-compounding lottery could fix these issues.Links:The Olive Oil Joe origin storyThe legend of Olive Oil JoeUhan PerformanceJoe’s blog posts that formed the basis of this episode: Part I, Part II, and Part IIIDesert Island Picks: Antifragile by Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Achtung Baby by U2, Ninkasi Spring ReignIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Since we ran incredibly long, we had to split up our UROY debate into two episodes. Here’s our mens’ discussion of UROY and POY.Beer for this episode: Bissell Brothers Substance and ReciprocalLinksLaura Kline on the 2017 ballotJason Mintz on the 2018 ballotMy final ballot in 2016, 2017, and 2018And, after much consideration and debate, my final ballot for 2019, which differs somewhat from what we talk about in this episodeIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

As always, I’m honored and excited to be included on the voting panel for Ultrarunning Magazine’s Ultrarunner of the Year. But as usual, this leads to days of internal debate and wondering what I’m doing wrong. This year I was lucky enough to be joined by my usual co-host, Phil Vondra, as well as Beastcoast ultra stud and former podcast guest Rich Heffron, so they could set me straight. We recorded this show last week, two days before ballots were due, and thus I was able to incorporate their sage perspectives into my final picks, which I’ve linked to below. In this show, Phil and I spent a quick fifteen minutes recapping some recent ultra results before Rich joined us to discuss our top 10 picks for UROY and our top 5 mens’ and womens’ Performances of the Year. For time purposes, we had to split this show into two episodes, so the men’s discussion will be presented separately.Beer for this episode: Bissell Brothers Substance and ReciprocalLinksLaura Kline on the 2017 ballotJason Mintz on the 2018 ballotMy final ballot in 2016, 2017, and 2018And, after much consideration and debate, my final ballot for 2019, which differs somewhat from what we talk about in this episodeIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Last month, Maggie Guterl became the first woman to win Big’s Backyard Ultra, the de facto world championship of the Last Man Standing format. This month, her career reaches new heights with her appearance in the Pain Cave! The Legend, Phil Vondra, joins us for a quick recap of the World Mountain Running Championships and the North Face Endurance Challenge championship before Maggie calls in to talk about her epic run at Big’s, 24-hour racing, the allure of Barkley’s, her favorite seltzer, and more.Beer: Other Half Green Down to the Socks and Small NelsonMaggie’s IGRugged RunningDesert Island Picks: an atlas, Bonobos, Polar Lime SeltzerIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

The Legend is back in the co-pilot’s seat for another installment of TMIU. We start off with a whirlwind of results from around the globe before delving deep into the two biggest events of recent weeks: Big’s Backyard and the 24 hour World Championships. Along the way, we tackle the burning questions, like: how to we fix the USATF championship process? Do people root for Camille, or just respect her? What is a Moscato? Plus, we give our picks for the podium at this weekend’s North Face Championships.Beer for this episode: Trillium Brewing Dialed-In Double IPAIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Whether hiking through the Alps, rock climbing in the Gunks, or hammering mountainous 100-mile races all over the US, you will not find a more amiable outdoor companion than Tom Kaplan—and you will not find an athlete more willing to push themselves past their breaking point. We welcomed the great TK into the Cave after his recent finish at the Bear 100 to talk about rock climbing, his mercurial Ironman career, how he was able to overcome DNFs in his first nine attempts at the 100-mile distance (and what kept him coming back again and again), how he (kind of) invented Strava, and more.Beer: Southern Tier 8 Days a WeekTK’s IGDesert Island Picks: Coors Light; The Gulag Archipelago by Aleksander Solzhenitsyn; Led Zeppelin III (though Tom later clarified he actually meant Zep IV, and said he wishes he’d picked The Last Waltz instead)Intro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Fresh off an age group podium performance at the Bear 100, the Legend returns to the Pain Cave for another installment of This Month in Ultrarunning. As it’s been almost two months since our last episode, we have a lot of ground to cover! We start with our thoughts on another wild UTMB week, including Courtney’s historic performance and what’s wrong with the US men. Then it’s our trademark blitz through everything happening in the trail and ultra world, including Zach Bitter’s amazing 100 mile WR, Leadville, Pikes Peak, the conclusion of the Grand Slam, the penultimate races in the Golden Trail Series, our obligatory Jim and Killian conversations, and much more.We had all kinds of technical issues with this episode; unfortunately, the last 10 minutes or so are lost to the ether of my computer. Sorry about the problems there! You mostly missed Phil discussing his race at the Bear and brief recaps of the Cat’s Tail Trail Marathon and the Grindstone 100.Beer for this episode: Frost Beer Works Plush and Lush, courtesy of Kirsten KortzLinksAs discussed a number of times, the Billy Yang Podcast (including his UTMB recap and interviews with Justin Grunewald and Lucy Bartholomew)Intro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

In June, we spoke with inov-8 athlete Kristian Morgan as he prepared for an audacious attempt on the FKT for the Appalachian Trail—an attempt that was aborted less than a week in. Kristian was kind enough to return to the Pain Cave to discuss what went wrong, how he’s dealing with the disappointment of having to let go of this goal, what he learned that he’ll take forward, running in the White Mountains, hurling, and more.LinksKristian’s pre-AT interviewKristian’s websiteThe AT FKTIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

The Legend returns from his pilgrimage back to the motherland for the latest installment of TMIU. We pat ourselves on the back for some not-terrible WSER predictions and recap the biggest storylines and surprises from Auburn (2:30) before discussing the doping mini-controversies clouding the podiums at Sierre-Zinal last weekend (19:30). Then it’s our whirlwind recap of the trail and ultra results of the past month (28:00), including Fat Dog, Eastern States, Badwater, Laveredo, AC100, and many more; before we touch on the shitstorm surrounding the entry process for the Last Annual Vol State (39:30) and Laz’s cult of personality.Beer for this episode: Hill Farmstead Nelson, courtesy of Kirsten KortzIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Oh boy! It’s the best time of year…Western States time! And the Legend himself, Phil Vondra, is fired up to talk about it. Before we dig into what’s going to happen this weekend, though, we’ve got a bunch of news and results to get through, including Phil’s recap of this past weekend’s Manitou’s Revenge (1:30), the cancellation of the Hardrock 100 (5:00), the untimely passing of Mark Richtman (10:00), and results from around the globe (11:30), including Comrades, the Trail World Championships, Bighorn, Mohican, Broken Arrow, and more. Then it’s finally time to dive into Western States (26:00), where we discuss Jim and Courtney’s chances to repeat, who we expect to bounce back with big performances, some dark horses to watch, and out picks for the podiums.Beer for this episode: Fort Point Animal Tropical IPALinks:Hardrock 100 cancellation announcementAJW’s remembrance of Mark Richtmanirunfar’s men’s and women’s WS100 previewsIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

We’ve talked a lot on the show about the role that the brain plays in determining performance in endurance events, but we haven’t talked so much about how we can actually modify the brain’s response to physical stress in order to improve our performance. In part, that’s because this is a very difficult thing to practically address. Sun Sachs is here to change that. Sun is the co-founder of ReWire Cycling, a tech startup that is aiming to bring “brain training” to the endurance sport masses. Sun joined us in the Pain Cave last month to talk about how is background in cycling helped develop his interest in the mental side of the sport, the work of Samuel Marcora, the lowdown on “response inhibition training” and how he and his partner developed the app that may change how we view mental training for endurance athletes. Then, we welcomed back the great Laura Kline (32:30) to talk about her experience as a beta tester for the app, the changes she’s noticed in her performance, and more.ReWire Cycling just launched a Kickstarter campaign to help secure funding for mass production of the app and the device we talked about here. If this campaign is successful, we may see this come to market in early 2020. Check out the links below and consider supporting them!LinksOur interview with Alex Hutchinson, where we talked a bunch about Marcora and brain training (and Alex’s excellent book)ReWire CyclingThe Kickstarter campaignLaura’s website and her blog post from her most recent race, where she says she drew on the mental training she’d practiced with the appOur last interview with LauraIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

If you aren’t yet familiar with the name Kristian Morgan, you will be this summer. On July 1, the London-based ultrarunner will leave Springer Mountain, GA, aiming to become the first person to complete the Appalachian Trail in less than 40 days. Last month, after a final reconnaissance mission on the trail’s southern section, Kristian called in from across the pond to talk about why he likes racing hundreds, how lo prepare for a mountain race in London, Tour de Geants, his experience with Karel Sabbe on the AT last summer, FKT culture in the UK, and more.LinksKristian’s website, including tracking for the AT and coaching infoFeet in the CloudsThe Bob Graham RoundKarel Sabbe’s AT FKTDesert Island Picks: Are You Experienced? by the Jimi Hendrix Experience, Gipsy Hill HepcatIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

After a few quiet weeks on the ultra scene, the season starts heating up again, and The Legend returns to discuss all the latest happenings. We start off by recapping Phil’s race this past weekend at the Cayuga Trails 50, the US trail 50-mile championships, and some of the other storylines coming out of Ithaca. We also tackle the possibility of a cancellation at Hardrock, record chasing at Project Carbon X, Dawn to Dusk to Dawn and the US teams for the 24-hour world championships, recent results from the Backyard/Last Man series, unbreakable records, and more.Beer for this episode: Foam Brewers PavementLinks:Red Mountain Pass SNOTEL site, which will factor into a go/no-go call for Hardrock (probably next week)Project Carbon XUS 24-hour teamsAJW’s unbreakable trail 100 mile recordsIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

As an athlete, filmmaker, and a race director, Sherpa John Lacroix is a seminal figure in the modern version of the sport of ultrarunning—and one who’s not afraid to ruffle a few feathers either. We caught up with Sherpa John for a fun conversation about his roots in hiking and backpacking (1:30), how he cut his teeth in race directing and may have semi-accidentally started the OCR craze (7:05), his current race series (29:00), ultrarunning as therapy (31:45), commercialization in the sport, his favorite races, and more.Links48, Sherpa John’s film about peak bagging in the White MountainsHuman Potential Running SeriesThe Burro Racing World ChampionshipsDesert Island Picks: Forest and Crag by Laura and Guy Waterman, the Lumineers, Odell Brewing 90 ShillingIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Sifting through the various dietary and nutritional approaches to our sport (vegan! low carb! gluten-free! fruitarian!) can be confusing and, frankly, exhausting. Don’t worry, though: elite runner/nutrition PhD/Ultrarunning magazine coverboy Jonathan Clinthorne joins us in the Pain Cave to help us sort through it all. We talked about his background as the second-fastest ultrarunning former lacrosse player to graduate from Michigan State, various approaches to a traditional carbohydrate-rich approach, the benefits and limitations of a low-carbohydrate/ketogenic diet, and more.LinksA little background on JonathanOur interview with the fastest ultrarunning former lacrosse-playing MSU gradThe Art and Science of Low-Carbohydrate PerformanceThe recent IAAF Consensus Statement for nutrition in athletesDesert Island Picks: The Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follet, Led Zeppelin III, Bell’s Two-Hearted IPAIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

After a too-long absence, the Shawangunk Express is back in the co-pilot’s chair for our kind-of-monthly roundup of all the goings-on in the ultra and trail scenes. We start by recapping a second straight no-finishers year at Barkley (2:30) before digging in to all the hullabaloo surrounding the most recent Golden Ticket race, the Georgia Death Race (9:45). Then it’s time for a whirlwind tour of all the ultra results we’ve missed, including the Fourmidable 50K, Way Too Cool, Black Canyons, Chuckanut, and much more (23:35). Plus, we lament the rash of early-season injuries (49:15), and a very brief preview of this weekend’s upcoming showdown at Lake Sonoma (51:15).Beer for this episode: Other Half 4th Anniversary Imperial IPALinks:Stephanie Case’s recap from BarkleyAJW on the GDR controversyUS teams for the World Trail ChampionshipsLake Sonoma start listIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "The Mountains Win Again" by Blues Traveler

Mike Wardian has been at the forefront of the sport of ultrarunning for over a decade, but even by his lofty standards, 2019 is off to quite a start. After sweeping all seven marathons to win his second World Marathon Challenge (en route to setting a new world record for the fastest ten marathons in ten days), Mike journeyed to Israel to attempt a new Fastest Known Time on the 631-mile Israel National Trail. We caught up with Mike to talk about his experience on the INT (1:30), why he returned to the World Marathon Challenge (30:30), recovery (36:00), defining success, traveling with family, lacrosse, and more.LinksMike’s websiteThe Israel National TrailZoli Bihari, who set up the FKT attempt, runs the touring company Canaan Running AdventuresThe World Marathon ChallengeDesert Island Picks: A giant combination dictionary and thesaurus, Big Spoon Almond Butter, The LumineersIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

The Legend is back! Finally! After a three-month absence, the Don Draper of ultrarunning returns for our latest installment of This Month in Ultrarunning, the craze that’s sweeping the nation. Phil and I start off with some final thoughts on the 2018 UROY and FKTOY voting (3:30) before turning our attention to the new year. We discuss some recent ultra-related news and headlines (14:30) before a rundown off all the early season action (30:00), including results from the Spine, Hong Kong, 9 Dragons, Tarawera, Bandera, Rocky Raccoon, and more. We finish up with a brief look ahead to this weekend’s second Golden Ticket race, the Black Canyon 100K (51:30).Beer for this episode: Alchemist Holy CowLinks:Our full UROY podcast with Jason Mintz, and my final UROY ballotUltrarunning Magazine’s most competitive races listOur interview with Mike Siudy, the King of the CatskillsKoop’s article on the state of ultrarunning competitionRoss Tucker’s article on Caster SemenyaAnother really good article by Ross on some of those issues and moreRunner attacked, kills mountain lion. (Since we recorded, he’s come forward.)We made a brief mention at the end about my coaching services, including guaranteed entry into Leadville via the LT100 Coaching + Entry packageIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

If you don’t follow the sport of ultrarunning outside of the big trail races, you may not know the name Geoff Burns…but you should. Geoff is one of the top road ultramarathoners in the US; he is the 2016 national champion at 100K, and has finished fifth at each of the last two 100K World Championships. He’s also a doctoral student in biomechanics at the University of Michigan, and he joined the show to help get us back in touch with our science-of-the-sport roots. We talked about running for the Wolverines (2:30), his recent research on stride frequency (9:30) and the implications it has for training and racing (28:00), the utility of wearable power meters for runners (36:30), representing the US in international competition (45:20), his experience at Comrades (where he placed 12th) in 2018 (52:30), his plans for 2019, and more.LinksGeoff’s paper in JAPAlex Hutchinson’s article on Geoff’s research (our interview with Alex here)Chris Lear’s Sub-4:00, about Alan Webb and Michigan runningDesert Island Picks: The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoefsky, Born to Run by Bruce Springsteen, Trader Joe’s Beef Tamales, Taylor’s 1963 Vintage Port

For the fourth straight year, I’m both thrilled and appalled at being asked to vote for Ultrarunning Magazine’s Ultrarunner of the Year…and for the second straight year, I’ve asked one of my toughest critics to join me on the show to tell me how badly I’m screwing it up. This time, we did it early enough that I could actually make a few changes to the ballot! Upstate NY ultra stud Jason Mintz enters the Pain Cave to discuss our choices for the top 10 men and women of the year, top five performances of the year, the difficulty of weighing performances in overseas races, how much DNFs should count against you, and more. Check back next week for my blog post detailing my final choices.LinksMy debate with Laura Kline over the 2017 ballotMy final ballot in 2016 and 2017Intro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

David and Megan Roche are one of the power couples in US trail and ultra running today, with seven national championships between them. Not only that, they’re the brains behind Team SWAP and the coaches of some of the most successful athletes in the country, including recent winners of Western States, Leadville, Run Rabbit Run, and more. Not only that, they’re also the authors of The Happy Runner, a new book that just might change the way you view training, racing, and life. David joins us in the Pain Cave to talk about the importance of self-acceptance, how to “let go” of our dependence on results, the principles of his training and coaching philosophy, and much more.LinksTeam SWAPBuy The Happy RunnerDavid’s (dog’s) InstagramDesert Island Picks: Catch-22 by Joseph Heller, Tupac’s Greatest Hits, Brooklyn Cider House (I chose this specific one for him!)

We had so much fun talking with one of the fastest US women ever at 24 hours (Megan Alvarado) that we decided to do the same for the men. Pete Kostelnick is a two-time winner and the course record holder at the famed Badwater 135, as well as #5 on the all-time US 24-hour list, but he’s perhaps best known for his record-setting run across America in 2016, breaking Frank Giannino’s 36-year old record by more than four days. This summer Pete took it to a new extreme, running 5300+ miles self-supported from the Kenai Peninsula in Alaska to Key West, Florida—a diagonal crossing of the continent—in just under 100 days. I spoke with Pete about how he got into running long distances (1:30), his experiences at Badwater (10:40), racing 24 hours (16:00), his record TransAmerica run (27:30), and his amazing “Ke2Key” adventure (37:00).LinksPete’s Feet Across AmericaPete’s InstagramDesert Island Picks: Born to Run by Christopher McDougall, Dizzy Up the Girl by the Goo Goo Dolls, Lagunitas Hop Stoopid, Ska Brewing Modus HoperandiIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

The cancellation of the North Face championships meant that many of the top athletes who had been aiming to end their season in northern CA wound up journeying east for the venerable JFK 50 mile, the oldest ultramarathon in the country. The smart money was on previous winner Leah Frost (#3 all-time at JFK) or former Western States champ Kaci Lickteig for the women’s crown. But when the dust settled, it was Beast Coaster Kate Pallardy who scored a convincing win in 6:40. We welcomed Kate into the Pain Cave to talk about her background as a pro triathlete, training on the mean streets of NYC, how she balances homeschooling (and breastfeeding) her kids with training to run fast marathons and ultras, and how she found her passion in sport and in life.LinksKate’s Instagram feedThe country’s oldest ultra, the JFK 50Desert Island Picks: Killing the SS by Bill O’Reilly and Martin Dugard, Mozart: Overtures on Spotify, Harpoon Camp WannamangoIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

In the past few years, as ultrarunning and trail racing in particular has continued to grow in popularity, there’s been a concurrent increase in the number of world-class racers exploring their limits in timed events, and the competition at these races has become fierce. This week we welcomed Altra/T-Starr Running/Drymax athlete Megan Alvarado, the newly crowned US 24-hour champion, into the Pain Cave. Megan and I spoke about balancing 24-hour racing and trail racing (6:10), training on the treadmill (10:00), how she approaches a timed event (22:50), increasing female participation in the sport (29:00), and her Desert Island Picks (39:20).LinksMegan’s Ultrasignup page and InstagramHow to help wildfire victimsHere’s a running-related fundraiser I donated toMegan’s Desert Island Picks: The Brave Athlete by Dr. Simon Marshall and Lesley Paterson; Spotify Motivation Mix playlist; Diet Cherry 7UpIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Ultrarunner and filmmaker Sanjay Rawal joins the Pain Cave to talk about his latest documentary, 3100: Run and Become. The movie follows competitors in the 2016 Self-Transcendence Run, a 3100-mile ultramarathon around a single city blog in Queens. In exploring the secret of what drives these runners, the film journeys to a Navajo reservation in Arizona, the Kalahari Desert in southern Africa, and the Buddhist temples deep in the mountains of Japan, to discover the spirituality that underlies the reasons why we run. Sanjay and I discuss Sri Chinmoy, the guru whose teachings inspired the Self-Transcendence Run, motivation, filming, multi-day racing, and how to find meaning in our running.LinksThe Self-Transcendence RunMore about Sri ChinmoySanjay’s IMDB pageDesert Island Picks: The Complete Poems of Walt Whitman, Greatest Hits by The Cure, Bitburger Alcohol-free PilsIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

The Legend returns to the Pain Cave to rescue you from the ultrarunning doldrums, with recaps of the insanity at Big’s Backyard (3:00), Hennepin Hundred (27:45), North Coast, Run Rabbit, and more.This episode was recorded last week, before Javelina Jundred, which we’ll recap in our next episode.Also, I did want to point out one error/omission from this episode. While discussing Barkley (why are we always discussing Barkley?!), we were trying to name women who have finished a “fun run” and could only come up with Beverly Anderson-Abbs. A little research revealed two other women have completed three laps on the course: Eliza McLean in 2000 and Sue Johnston in 2001. (Bev has finished two fun runs, in 2012 and 2013.) Thanks to Matt Mahoney for that data and sorry for the mistake.Beer for this episode: Start Line Brewing Hop Load IPAIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

The fastest 100-mile of 2018 doesn’t come from a resident of California, Colorado, or Arizona, but from right here in upstate New York. Albany’s Jim Sweeney sits down in the Pain Cave to discuss his cool new gig at the West Kill Brewery (1:00), his background in ultrarunning and how his training has progressed heading into his breakthrough 2018 season (3:00), his early-season success at Umstead (13:00), and his astounding 13:09 at the Hennepin Hundred, one of the top 15 US times ever. We also get into his upcoming race plans (31:45), some staple workouts and training approaches (38:00), and his Desert Island Picks (42:10).LinksWest Kill BrewingDesert Island Picks: The Stranger by Albert Camus, Spiritual Machines by Our Lady Peace, Left Hand Bittersweet NitroIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

It may have been a disappointing year for many of the top Americans at UTMB, but US runners came through with podium finishes at TDS, the 121km companion race. We welcome mens’ runner-up Dylan Bowman to the Pain Cave to talk about his fantastic early season (4:45), how he prepares for big mountain races (20:15), his race at TDS (33:00), the carnage at UTMB (49:55), his plans for the rest of the year (61:15), and his Desert Island Picks (65:00).LinksDyaln’s websiteVideo of DBo’s Lost Coast Trail FKTFinish of TDSDesert Island Picks: Graceland by Paul Simon, ‘Til the Medicine Takes by Widespread Panic, Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari, New Belgium Fat Tire AleIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

We hadn't planned on a UTMB recap episode, but after the craziness that transpired last weekend in Chamonix, Phil and I had to sit down for an emergency pod to discuss Killian's allergic reaction, Xavier's redemption, disappointment for the US men and women, and what this all means going forward.Tonight's beer: Zero Gravity Grand RoyalIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Ultra geeks rejoice! We're joined once again by our "This Month in Ultrarunning" partner in crime, Phil Vondra, for an in-depth preview of UTMB. Phil and I recap a fantastic week in Colorado, including Leadville (2:00), Pike's Peak (15:30), and Transrockies (21:00), plus other news and results from the ultra world (24:00), before we go deep on everything happening in Chamonix, including results from TDS and our look at the contenders for OCC, CCC, and UTMB (32:45).LinksTonight's beer: the Other Half Nelson + MosaicKoop's Leadville writeupMountain Peak Fitness' photos and videos from Leadvilleirunfar's UTMB mens' and womens' previewsIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

The Legend returns to the Cave for this month's installment of TMIU, where we quickly recap some of the major storylines from Western States (3:00) before dissecting Perrier-gate at Hardrock (11:00). We also discuss the controversy surrounding the awards at the Vermont 100 (38:00), review some results from Lavaredo and Cayuga Trails, and get into some recent FKTs.Intro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

Look, if we do these things for long enough, eventually we're likely to get injured. And those of us who have been there know the truth: just like training and racing, recovering from an injury is as much a mental exercise as it is a physical one. In this episode we chat with former elite mountain biker and injury recovery specialist Heidi Armstrong, founder of The Injured Athlete's Toolbox, to learn how to deal with and overcome injuries. We talked about Heidi's athletic background and how she developed an interest in recovery (1:30), the terms athletes use to describe how being injured makes us feel (9:30), the role social media can play in recovery (18:00), how an injured athlete can move towards acceptance and recovery (20:10), and how to recognize when we need help dealing with our injuries (32:55). If you're injured, or have been injured, or will get injured (hint: that's all of us!), this is a good listen.Links: The Injured Athlete's ToolboxContact Heidi by emailEMDR therapyDesert Island Picks: When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron, Woodface by Crowded HouseIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

The new King of the Catskills, Mike Siudy, visits the Pain Cave following his incredible FKT of the "Direttissima"--a continuous, 140+ mile tagging of the thirty-five 3500' peaks in the Catskill Mountains. We start with how Mike's background as a climber and hiker prepared him for a career in ultrarunning (2:35), how he became a Gridiot (11:40), Ted "Cave Dog" Keizer's pioneering route (16:25), and how it all went down on Memorial Day weekend (19:45). Plus, we chat about the Barkley Marathons (57:00) and Manitou's Revenge (which Mike co-directs with Charlie Gadol) before digging into his Desert Island Picks (1:13:15).LinksMike's MPF/RNR pageIndustrial Arts BrewingThe original Catskills nightmare, the Escarpment Trail RunOn becoming a GridiotCave DogThe DirettissimaManitou's Revenge and Cat's Tail Trail Marathon, the brainchildren of WTF RacingDesert Island Picks: The Games Climbers Play by Ken Wilson, Southsiders by Atmosphere, West Kill Brewing's Moonfarmer IPAIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

The Pain Cave journeys west to the venerable Western States 100, where I was pacing our very first podcast guest, Brian Oestrike. Since I was in town, I was able to finagle a sit-down with the great Eric Schranz of Ultrarunnerpodcast.com. As we recorded the day before the big show, Eric and I spent a few minutes discussing how we thought the day might play out (1:45), before we addressed some of the issues at the forefront of our sport, including the East Coast/West Coast divide (6:45), PEDs and TUEs (10:45), the primacy of WS100 and controversies it engenders (23:00), and the sustainability of growth in the sport (30:40).LinksUltrarunnerpodcast.comEric's recent interview with Jenny JurekThe aforementioned/oft-discussed profile of Coree WolteringImproving youth participationDesert Island Picks: Athletic Brewing Company, Deeper Understanding by War on Drugs, Joshua Tree by U2,Intro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

It's only been two week since our last TMIU episode, but we're too excited for this weekend to wait! We welcome home the Legend, Phil Vondra, to recap his epic run at last weekend's Bighorn 100 (2:10), briefly review some recent results from Comrades, Broken Arrow, and Mount Washington (17:00), and dig deep into our Western States preview (24:00).LinksBlack Tooth Brewing Hot Streak IPAAJW's recent post on avoiding DNFsIntro music: "Fine Line" by the BloodlettersOutro music: "When I Was Still Young" by Yard Sale

The occasion for this episode is the release of the second edition of Running Anatomy, which Joe co-authored with Patrick Milroy. We spent some time talking about Joe's experience writing the book initially (8:00), what the impetus was for the second edition (11:15), the idea of functional versus general strength (17:20), why coaching remains such an important part of his life (26:15), his work with Jorge Maravilla (33:30), and why distance runners are such prolific drinkers (45:45)...and of course, Joe's Desert Island Picks (56:00). Hope you enjoy this one despite the sound issues, it really is a worthwhile conversation.LinksRunning Anatomy, Second EditionJoe's old store, Haddonfield Running CompanyMan's Search For Meaning by Viktor FranklHopes and Fears, Keane21st Amendment Hell or High WatermelonIntro: "What We Need" by Bannister EffectOuttro: "Flaw in My Design" by Bannister Effect